Hi Board,

I've been a PU (not an artist, though - regular craftmanship) for the last 12 years. I started at 22 and am now 34. I used the PU skills to change from a shy geek into a funny and confident male who can get (most) girls if he wants. I am restricted to the "intellectual" type because I do not like clubbing and have to prove my status through other assets, foremost wit and a very broad and deep education. I don't want to brag, it is simply my strength. My weaknesses are cripplling in LTR and IRL.

I've been sitting over my PhD (in Germany) for 8 years by now. I have not significantly evolved, because I didn't dare to do the next step and leave university. I am working as a freelance (translator, interpreter, protocol assistant in parliament and tourist guide). I've lost several women in LTR over this, because they either realized that I didn't progress or because I got lazy in the relationship. Every time I get out of an relationship I get active again. I pick up hobbies that I negelcted (fencing, ultimate frisbee, political activities, travelling, philosophy and history of arts etc.). This makes me interesting. I meet interesting women, some of which are only for mutual carnal pleasure, but it then happens that I get a relationship material woman. I seduce her and they fall madly in love with me. Then the downward spiral begins. I turn into a couch potato, I neglect hobbies and fall into a depressive lifestyle (I had depressions before, for which I got therapy). This gets to the point that the LTR breaks up and I reset the cycle, leaving my lethargic lifestyle and rising like a phoenix from the ashes. This is not the way to go.

My problem is not generating high value (or: an interesting lifestyle), but not to fall back into the old pattern again. This has now happened thrice (with relationships lasting 2-3,5 years each) and I am fed up with myself.

tl;dr
To get to the point: How do I prevent from lapsing into an old, self-destructive and depressive mindset? I *know* what I should do. And I do it - for 1.5-2 years. But in the longterm the weaknesses always come crawling back into my life.

Thanks for reading, suggestions are most welcome.

Monotony. When your life becomes monotonous , your brain ceases to get off the things you do and you fall into a depressive state. Brake-ups kill monotony. A fresh relationship , a promotion , a new exciting event , all these things kill it.That's why we feel those bursts of life force when these things happen.


Always do things to keep your life interesting. Not for people around you,but for yourself.

_________________
I know my place. It's me on top of the world.

My in depth texting & dating guide.
There's no such thing as shit-tests.
How to keep a girl.

I know exactly how you feel and I am in my thirties too. I have amazing ability to get the women but then I become lazy and they get distant and then I become needy and push them away.

Its a self destructive trait. I'm afraid it may be for the rest of my life. Maybe I can't be in a relationship.

When the girls are all over me it pushes me away and I cheat. When the don't want me I become so needy and push them away.

So the question I pose to the OP is why he posted the question. Do you feel like you lost an opportunity at a lifelong relationship? Why the sudden cause for concern? If you want my honest opinion, I would say that the reason you get complacent is because you have not met the perfect person for you, or that you have not sufficiently opened yourself up to them if you did. In a nutshell, at some point before you get complacent and lazy, you should let your girl know that you are prone to that. A good mate for you will help you solve the problem because she wants to be happy with you, and if this happens, I'll bet you love her a lot for it. Who knows, maybe you're just waiting for the perfect woman, i.e. a woman who knows what your problems are without you telling her. If so, you're probably going to be waiting for a long time.

I definitely think she has the qualities I look for in a LTR. I know they are not unique to her, but I still mourn what looks like a wasted opportunity and 3,5 years of wasted time. Because I am right back to where I was in 2009. The pattern is exactly the same as the one in the LTR before and I feel that I have not evolved. This is saddening and I fear it will repeat itself with the next LTR, be it with that girl or with another one. I don't mind being alone or having trouble finding women. But I feel insecure in myself when it comes to LTR, because I have failed four times at them.

You've just said it perfectly and that is, the women who were initially attracted to you were attracted to the man that has a multitude of things and hobbies going on with a fascinating profession. But when you got comfortable with the girls, you stopped and became dull. The aspiration of any attraction from all those women you went out with is then lost. They left because you became dull, then you picked out the hobbies again where you left off and the cycle continues. It happens to all of us. We become complacent, because most human beings are lazy and they always head for the path of least resistance. You figure that you're getting lots of sex from her, so why work so hard with your hobbies when she's working me out! That's how you loose attraction.

Let me teach you a lesson. When you meet another woman again, continue what you're doing even if you're getting lots of sex. When she complains you're not giving her the time, TELL HER she should join your activities. You do not compromise with her. If she refused and argue with you, then you know her intent is only to use you as a parking garage for sex until she finds another more suitable man. Next her immediately even though the sex is great still or you'll waste another 2 years of your life. You aren't getting any younger you know.

HOWEVER.. If she pauses and then answer yes, this means that she is just getting along so not to upset you and her heart is still isn't into you 100% yet, but still a very good sign. Don't next her, but find an excuse that the event got cancelled so you are doing something else without her. If she's really into you, she will then keep bugging you for more time. The next time you are doing your stuff again, ask her if she wants to join. If she says "YES" without pause, that means she's into you completely. Keep doing this and pushing the boundaries. Do not be afraid to challenge her, because that shows you are a man! If you don't challenge her, how would you know that in the 2 years you guys are together, she's just there to milk you off while looking for another stud to start another relationship off?
Eventually, she'll be participating in most of your hobbies which is what a wife and long term girlfriend be doing anyhow. If she's not doing any of those, your relationship will be finished.

Do not be afraid if you're not with her too often, because being yourself and doing your stuff actually increases her interest in you, but like every men, they are so afraid of being distant to their girls that they ended up chasing her back even though you pretend you've got the game right.

You say the years were wasted. Was there absolutely nothing of value that was produced for you during that time? At a bare minimum, you seem to have recognized the pattern, so that alone is of some value, and should be a core reason why you shouldn't be insecure about your next relationship.You know who you are, how you typically act in a relationship, etc. A good match for you will be one who wants that type of behavior and lifestyle, or one who can be your partner in combating that type of behavior. Most women I consider keepers will respond in a very positive way if you bring this issue out into the open when you feel it setting in as well.

Would it be a good idea if he told his next LTR about this pattern, and she should tell him if she recognizes the pattern is repeating? I mean that will immediately show if she cares about him, right? Or should he stay alpha and show little to no weakness about this and fix the problem himself? Worthy point of discussion I think

That's exactly what I was suggesting. Best chance to have a relationship that survives the pattern is one that either WANTS what evolves from the patter, or one that wants to help the OP avoid repeating the pattern, if indeed that's what he wants to do. In a nutshell, seems like he gets comfortable and gets lazy. Assuming he doesn't like that lifestyle, he needs someone who doesn't completely drift away, but someone who motivates him to stay in shape and be cool and fun in order to get to fuck her, etc. Ideally she does the same thing and they both stay in shape, have great sex, and live a fun life together. That doesn't happen without communication though.

I let some time pass by to see how things would evolve. NC worked fine for me, as did talks with friends.
I am coming back to this quote above because after a week of NC she came to talk. I agreed, as I was back on my feet by then and she's still paying rent for the appartment. She then told me all that had pushed her away. It was exactly the getting lazy and especially getting distant stuff that I didn't realize. I know this seems beta, but I guess that a trait that pushes women away without pulling them back is not really desirable. Now a new situation has arisen.

Description of current problem:
At the moment we have the problem that we live in the same appartment. I know she is longing for another guy in another city but not sure of him yet. I am now again torn - because the NC was broken. I know what was missing in the relationship, I know she is falling in love (which wouldn't have bothered me as much before the NC was broken) and I think, that the other guy used standard PU pattern to woo her. So I am pissed, too. She told me that she's lost any attraction towards me. But I don't know if that's her genuine feeling or some boyfriend-destroyer that was run on me.

Long term strategy:
"I've lost attraction towards you" is pretty unsurmountable odds for a regame in the near future - even if it is enhanced by a bf-destroyer pattern. So I'll have to recover myself first, become secure of myself again and be able to display HV to her (or any other woman I might fancy). I've taken up sports again and have become a workaholic to finish my thesis quicker. I am right now taking up my game again, though it's difficult because I don't have an appartment of my own (see "problem") to take chicks back and I am not 100% back to normal. My part of the appartment shines at least as I've cleaned it. I plan to go on a "GFTOW" recovery trip, though I've never done ten women before meeting another girl that I really fancied.

I am not sure if I have to plant a BF-destroyer (out of spite) on her new crush. If she's not sure about him at this stage and considers him insecure, then I guess I don't have to do much. I might even be in a better position for a regame in half a year or a year, if she is disillusioned.

I would be once again grateful for any thoughts from strangers from the internet.

Couple quick points. It clearly bugs you that she has some interest or feelings for another guy. Stands to reason with me that if you have interest or feelings for another girl and it is reciprocated, that demonstrates high value..........

At your age, and hers, it seems likely that she could/should appreciate honesty. She's giving you some, telling you what pushed her away. I see no reason why a subsequent discussion wouldn't allow you to acknowledge to her that you realize the pattern you fell into, that you've done it before, and you don't blame her for not digging a guy who has no life......would you dig a chick that is boring as hell and fat and lazy?

You have nothing to lose by pushing forward with these items. Worst case, she's too far gone and you mean nothing to her. The plus side of this is that you learned a lesson, and you're on your way to finding the next damn good woman you want. Best case scenario, she sees the changes in you and finds you attractive again and starts to pursue you.

Either way, you win man. Good luck.

I am working on that. Because in the worst case there's a lay.
In fact I knew about that pattern before I met her and that's why I am pissed at myself. And I've told her but she's reiterating "that train has left the station". And while I pay more attention to what she does rather than what she says, I get mixed signals. On the one hand she states "there's no attraction left, how can it work from here?" and "I loved you but now I don't", but she doesn't evade kino like an armpat, rubbing her back or brushing against her. She read several pages I wrote for my thesis and honestly found them to be "brilliant" and told me she adores these insights from me, which is pretty much praise from her.
I guess not. She's either gone or gone. I don't think she's that far from giving it a second chance, but resolved not to move another inch. I don't see much progress and don't want to be needy. I've tried patterning and reinstalling the old frame, but she's still matter of fact. She sees the change but says: "I vowed never to be unhappy in a relationship again". And of course there's the thing about the lost attraction. I am a little bit at a loss at how to reinstate attraction with an ex so that you become a potential bf again without seeming needy and clingy.

I think it's a lot harder when she sees the morphing taking place. Has a lot stronger effect when out of the blue she sees you and your fit, looking good, happy, etc. One thing I would suggest, if she is still living there, maybe just say that you realize that it's over and you need to get over it, and you don't want anything to be weird but you really don't like going without getting laid, so is there a way that if you met someone else you could bring her by the place some night. Find a tactful way to bring it up and state it though.