It is relationship-related as she's considered a 'friend', despite my motives.

Several months ago, during the summer, I had met this girl I had been talking to briefly on a popular dating site. She's 20, I'm in my 30s and I initially almost passed-off on meeting her on account of the large age deferential (I wasn't looking for a hookup, as I am at a point where they're kinda meaningless).

One day we agreed to have an impromptu meeting - I picked her up outside the place she was living at with her girlfriends. It was around midnight, so it should have been obvious that this was a hookup of sorts. We ended up going back to my place after grabbing a bite to eat, and she stayed the night, in my bed cuddled up against me. over the next few weeks we saw each other nearly daily, and were very affectionate with each other wherever we went; I quickly forgot about her being so young, and allowed myself to get emotionally entrenched in her. We had sex only a few times, and both times it wasn't a particularly great experience but it didn't concern me overall as we both had the drive, but were not used to each others style.

After those few weeks of hanging out, I got upset with her for referring to me as a friend when she was conveying to me something she said to another friend of hers. Obviously i felt pretty hurt, and long story short (I don't need to bore u with all the particulars), I had to distance myself from her.

A month went by, albeit quite painfully for me (she became my kryptonite in such a short period of time, and I realized she could detach quite easily), after which I decided to contact her to see if she had wanted to chill (tried switching my expectations to relationship mode, to simply hanging out with a young girl & getting some pussy in the process).

She replied back that she would love to hang with me. Over the next few months we increasingly got to know each other much better, the emotional wall she had put up while we had dated was slowly lowering. Over the last while we've been seeing each other several times a week, and she often spends the night, in my bed alongside me - often times we spoon, her locking her legs between mine, caressing my feet with hers, or pulling my arms around her and playing with my fingers. We haven't had sex since meeting each other months ago. She knows I like her LIKE her because I've told her as much (it's kind of hard to contain), and I've done my best to be her friend with the addition of providing affection to her. The few times I've reminded her of how I feel towards her, she comes at me with solutions (e.g. "over time those feelings will fade, our caring for one another as friends is most important and to be cherished"). She insists that she doesn't want ANY romantic relationships right now, and spent a whole month of simply hooking up with guys to see if she could detach from the emotional pain her former relationships only brought her. I get that her and I have grown much closer over the past while, but it's really difficult to hear her talk about how one ex boyfriend of hers did this, and another did that - feel like the guy sitting outside looking in. Also, I fear that at some point her getting involved with another guy would cause me a lot of grief. I'm not even sure how to have an honest friendship with her when we never had that to begin with - her pretense to meeting me was to have sex with me, mine was for a relationship. It's complicated, I know...but the solution likely much simpler: To simply leave her be, and move on with my life.

I know it's probably what's healthiest for me, however part of me is hanging onto hope - wondering if there's SOMETHING or some THINGS I can do to seduce her. I'm not actively trying to romance her, I'm doing the friends thing with the infrequent flirtatious gesture, but nothing extreme. Her ability to be affectionate with me is obviously not helping matters but at the end of the night I realize she doesn't associate feelings of love with affection, and it's more a physical & emotional security thing for her.

She's told me in the past she's physically attracted to me, finds me highly intelligent, etc..etc.. blah blah blah but obviously she's not feeling that a desire to be with me romantically. She even told me prior to us meeting in person that she'd make a terrible girlfriend (it seems as though she's still grieving her first true love, a relationship that ended earlier this year and caused her to spiral into a deep depression, & thoughts of suicide). Lastly, she keeps alluding to having not dealt with some issue from her past that she cryptically describes as something she cherishes but "has been burdensome on others - she claims I'm the only one who actually knows that she's wrestling with this thing emotionally, but she refuses to tell me what it is - frustrating, I know, but I've learned to let go and give her that space.

As of the past week I made a decision to distance myself from her; becoming LESS available to her (in the past I've made myself available to her almost every time she wanted to hangout). I figure I need a bit of proximity from her for my own well-being, and also if I'm always around her it's unlikely she'd have any reason to miss me.

She's typically very touchy-feely with me. I don't know if you'd consider those IOIs as this isn't some chick I just met at the club. She hits me when I make her laugh, takes my arm and puts it around hers when walking sometimes, and the fact she can spoon with me and didn't protest when I put my hands on her ass. Probably most of these things are no biggie, but it feels as though there is some sexual tension in the air. There seems to be some boundary crossing, and the fact that we were sexual in the beginning kind of makes me second guess a lot of the physicality now going on between us (is it simply her feeling comfortable around me? is it her just feeling horned out? a combination? something else entirely?) - ya, the neuroticism set in a while back.

At this point, however, I'm not sure what course of action I should take in trying to win her over. If I should take a more passive approach and avoid her more, or be more active in pursuing her such as covertly seducing her.

Any ideas, suggestions, comments? Good god I'm letting this thing drive me crazzzzzzy!

Sorry, but to me, this does not qualify as a relationship...relationships usually entail a mutual connection in which at one point you both had and now one of the two, either you or her have now lost interest at some point.

Here, you clearly state you are both not on the same page, she wants one thing while you clearly want another...well, I suppose I’ll get to my point as my opinion has been stated...not trying to fight or disrespect, but I’m sure you know the difference.

Ultimately, I think the following did you in...
Your reaction...you know that should have been a no-reactive moment...or, had it bothered you that much, you should have kept it inside...the fact that you let this little comment bother you especially if you both still didn't have clear and definite motives for each other defined. Communication would have been a better tool to utilize than show her...I’m the man, I’m outs! I’m not really sure how it went down but for you to distance yourself for a month is abit harsh. Clearly you stated, if it’s not your way, I’m out, or did you communicate to her prior to?

Either way. I see it as a lost cause now...you are in the friends zone and getting out is super tough...I'd try the push pull but if you were already intimate with her and now can't get back there...it's probably time to put the energy into a new person and just keep this on the back burner. Just my thoughts. Good luck bro.

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You can't make the same mistake twice, the second time you make it, it's no longer a mistake, it's a choice.

Well, the reason I felt the need to distance myself was that I felt she simply played me (I allowed myself to get played). In my defense, after I had told her I felt towards her, her reaction was belittling, stating that for her being affectionate was no big thing for her, and that "other male friends have fallen for me in the past" - saying this in a very as-a-matter-of-fact almost teacher talking down to the pupil manner. She knew she had the upper hand, I allowed her to know as much. I distanced myself because of the perceived defference to which she dealt with me (I felt lead on), and that she was living with a male friend, who was like a mentor to her who was feeding her a bunch of BS as a way of controlling her (probably with the ambition to bang her), and I felt since she held him so highly on his pedestal that I didn't stand a chance with her. THat friendship disintegrated rather quickly, and almost predictably she came to me, and was spending much more time with me.

Just the other day she'd texted me that she had done something foolish, with an ex of hers (but "it's not what you think"). She told me she'd tell me next time we're hanging out lol (not sure why she can't tell me on the phone if it made her feel bummed). I don't know what it is, can only speculate. Point is, so long as I allow my emotions to get the better of me, and REACT to her, it's cat-and-string, and I'm the string.

Sure maybe I effed up in the past, but I'm focusing on solutions for the present as focusing on the past is ineffectual. I don't know if there's anything I can really do to win her over - having an intimate past with her may not necessarily work to my favor, but I don't think it counts me out either. I'm still on the fence on writing her off, or whether I should pursue this situation more tactically.

It seems, at least to me, the most prudent approach for now is to put some distance between us without coming off as aloof. I have been contacting her a lot less over the past week (prior to which we'd see each other about 3x a week, often where she'd end up spending the night - and it's not entirely unusual for her to give me soft little kisses on my back, or arm, or to lay her head upon my chest as we watch tv together). Obviously she derives some level of security with me, but it also leaves me longing for more.

Over the past while she seems to drop the occasional IOI (touching, giving me sultry looks, gently punching me in stomach or slap to face when I break her balls), but that can be my mind seeing what it wants to see.


Bites my ass getting caught up in the euphoria of being so intimate with her for 2 weeks, and now several months later being one of her closest friends wanting back in.

Sounds like you know exaclty where you wen't wrong and honestly, with what you need to do...it just sounds like you don't want to let go of something that can possiby be...again...we always want the challenge, something we can't have...but to what degree...don't let this bring you down or weigh heavy on you...its a learning experience, this all is. Learn from it and try to re-kindle what was once there or direct your energy to something more fruitful...your choice, no one can make that determination but you...just know, if you continue to try, don't beat yourself up later for not giving up sooner! Keep us posted! Good luck.

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You can't make the same mistake twice, the second time you make it, it's no longer a mistake, it's a choice.

I agree wholeheartedly. We can both clearly see I'm overly invested in this, for the lack of return I'm getting. This girl is 20, she's all over the place to some extent and for me to try and 'figure her out' is only going to lead me down a dark desolate road. I'm at some sort of crossroads with this situation. I think I'm leaning towards giving it a less ditch effort - but I'm not sure about what tactic to take. I know making myself less available would likely be a good place to start both for my own piece of mind and allow her to miss me. Last week she was getting a bit testy with me as she said I've been upsetting her (inadvertently, of course) by taking jokes too far, and making some off-hand comments. I know I can go a bit far with the joking because I'm insecure about boring her so I tend to be "on" way too often and I'm seeing that she's very annoyed by that - so I clearly know I have to restrain myself in this area.

Apart from being confident around her, and offering the occasional adventure, I'm not sure what else I could be doing to actively seduce her, without looking obvious about it.

Given the context of the situation, it doesn't seem that many of the PUA techniques would apply, or is this not really the case?

(Not sure if a palm or cold reading, interspersed with a few magic tricks is going do the trick, nor would the Mystery Method work as I'm not acquainted with her circle of friends lol)

I think the best method for this is to give some distance, pull, but push harder then pull again...it almost sounds like you've done all you can really. If you can turn this around in your favor, damn yo..more power to you! The last part, cold reading and and magic. Im sure that will make for good entertainment, but won't put you back in the drivers seat. This is a tough one, for me, after all this time spent, I'd keep her as a friend, but nothing more.

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You can't make the same mistake twice, the second time you make it, it's no longer a mistake, it's a choice.

Pull, then push? By that do you mean contact her, and hangout and then abruptly switch gears and place distance between us?

If you have made any impact on her...she'll enjoy the time spent with you and the time apart from you should be enough to enjoy being with you again...if not, then you know where this lies.

Either way, it's going to be a rough one and going in with expectations never goes as planned...but then again...one never knows until they try.

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You can't make the same mistake twice, the second time you make it, it's no longer a mistake, it's a choice.

Told her we should hangout Thurs night, she said that sounds nice. Contact has been noticeably less with her over past week, I have to not read into it as it does nothing more than put me in a reactive place.

As I said before, part of me wants to pursue, other part of me questions as to how much of my dignity am I giving up - but that's just coming from having expectations still, which somehow I have to abandoned if I truly want to have any chance with this person.


FIrst and foremost I have to make more of a concerted effort on not personalizing things. EVEN if it means she ended up sleeping with an ex, or whatever - she aint mine so acting as though she is will be a complete turnoff, and likely make it impossible to have anything with her. By chillaxin, being my usual fun self and showing her a good time while treating her like a lady will be the strategy to go with - obviously can't put on an act, she obviously likes being around me, so that's something to work with. Good god I'm losing my mind and need to sleep, pray for me lol.