Yep.

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I skimmed this, but I swear, sometimes I think dudes are dating preteen women on here. "The woman wont know what frame its from"? I disagree....a chick even a child, can tell the difference between an elaborate bouquet of flowers and a $2 flower from the grocery store. And its not too early for her to know the frame, she knows the frame from just how you present her the flower. She sees a broke looking guy coming out of the bus station for their first date struggling to carry an expensive vase of flowers...that says he is trying to win her over. She sees a guy who takes care of himself showing up with a simple rose, she thinks nice gesture and its no big deal for him. If I thought this "she wont know the frame so early" I couldnt tell a chick she looks hot on an opening, because she wont know the frame and lump me in with the losers. I couldnt ask for a number. I couldnt go for a kiss. I couldnt invite a chick over. Because like the flowers, she may just assume I'm like the last loser who did these things. Chick is attracted to you, she wants those things. If guys are really worried about whether a flower makes a chick lump you in with losers, then they're most likely just that...LOSERS. I dare someone to say something they do that couldnt be taken another way. So what? If you cant give a flower to a chick, you're initial impression is already working against you.

You're the very type of insecure validation-seeking sort of guy we're talking about. So fear ridden on being typical you are afraid to make a move. This much has already been exposed in previous threads about your supposed girlfriend.

A confident man knows his worth. He doesn't pander to what's cool, trendy or posture because he's afraid about how the woman he's dating will take his gesture.

Arch, I see clients like you on the daily. Both the male and female version, and most my time with them is spent helping them build a sense of self not derived from the acceptance (or denial) of another person.

He's the king of Straw Man Logic. Jack, are you seriously still surprised?

Wrong.

"Cliche and lazy" is based on how you're worried about being perceived. You have such a blind spot in your approach to women, I can almost bet once these younger women catch wind of how insecure you are they jump on the next dick that comes along.

It's about self-improvement, not insecurity. A man should strive to not indulge in cliches, and should avoid being lazy.

The rest of your post is just weird conjecture, lol. But you do like to talk about my women for some reason...

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A man should strive to live the way he wants to live. Seriously, who is anyone to say he's doing something wrong if he buys a girl a flower? If she likes him, she's going to like the flower. She's not going to say it's cliche or lazy. If she doesn't like him, she's not going to give a shit about a flower.

I know guys that have bought women gifts because they did something wrong. Some may consider that cliche or lazy, but what does it matter if a woman appreciates the gesture behind it?

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Not only is that a platitude, but it's terrible advice. This forum's function is to change the way a man lives. To tell the posters here who get blown off time and time again to "live the way you want" is self-defeating. They are, and they're failing.

Most men of course, live exactly how they want. It's why most men are fat, watch too much TV, and socially valuable women run from them.

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This isn't a platitude. It's outside of your understanding. Women aren't an achievement and looking at them that way is the first step of failure with women. A majority of guys that actually need help look at women as a prize and they look for instructions on what to do. Because of this, guys like you have lists of things you can and can't do because of fear that women will next them. Here's the truth, women fall into your reality the moment that they find you interesting, likable, and charming. That can start at second one of meeting them. However, the advice that you give requires you falling into their frame.
Don't do this because 9's and 10's don't like it -> their frame.
Don't buy flowers or she'll see you as cliche -> their frame.
Don't talk too much or they'll see you as less dominant -> their frame.
The problem with that is when you step outside of their frame, you instantly lose attractiveness because you aren't who you presented yourself as who you originally did. Arch, you are a dick and you present yourself as one. You never stop being a dick and because of that the women that you get fall into your frame. It's not because you say shit like bar x at 9:00, said something cocky with a sly smile, or wait a week before you contact a girl...you're just a dick and it's consistent with you and you don't realize that's you being yourself and the type of women you get are attracted to that. So when you give these guys rules of what they can and can't do, it doesn't take account for who they are and they will constantly fail because they aren't giving women anything to be attracted to nor a frame for women to fall into.

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Throw "idiot", "fraudster" and "stupid SOB" into the mix while you're at it and you have the beginning of truth.

Qualified with "change the way a man lives for the better."
In which case would disqualify you from giving any opinion or guidance on the matter.

Arch could benefit in knowing his niche (douche bags) because his approach is geared solely towards attracting douchebagy, thirsty hoes, but beyond that they won't get you much of anything else.

He can call it "Scraping of the Bottom of the Barrel Approach: The Art of Chasing & Attracting Dirty Hos" at least until his clients wake-up and realize they can get the same outcome by virtue of going to bars and meeting needy girls.

To be honest if I were to choose between flowers on her birthday and flowers on a random occasion, I'd go with the random.

I think flowers are cheesy only when they are expected. Like a "special event".

Do it if you feel like it OP.

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"Hoes"? Really?



Or as it's otherwise known, "Attracting Socially Valuable, Sex Positive Women". Or, you can try Void's method: "Speak Your Needs With 6's, and Get Dumped".

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Still obsessing over my comments I see, 3 weeks later...

Nope. R.C. bumped the thread and I read them for the first time.

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