You haven't watched your stepmother suffer the pain of a divorce due to your father's affair. Never say never, but "always" is definitely bullshit AFAIAC. I'd like to think I have more spine.

Come to think of it, my biological mother and my Dad got divorced when I was 3, and she was the one who had an affair. She was a total loser and it gave me some good head trips as a kid, setting me on a life trajectory where I actually need to read PUA forums "at my age." So no, wrecking stable homes with children who need their parents is off the table too. A marriage that's dying or dead is one thing, but just trying to get into someone's pants because you might be able to do it is quite another.

I think some people are spineless, afraid of themselves, afraid of intimacy, are damaged goods, have little frame of reference for why emotions actually matter in an evolutionary context, are emotionally unhealthy, and will do anything to drown their sorrows rather than face themselves. Doesn't have to be you, or a PUA in general, but a person who projects "everyone's a slut" needs to take a cold hard look in the mirror.

It's bullshit handwaving evolutionary theory. If you actually study the sexual evolution of our species vs. other species, we are the only one in which a woman hides the fact that she's ovulating. The man has to guess whether she's fertile or not, which means he has to stick around if he wants his genes to be passed on through viable offspring. "Animals" generally speaking just go into heat and then rut. The "stick around" trick is part of how we can have offspring that are pretty much helpless for a long time, until they develop significantly more complex motor and cognitive skills than other species.

And why is that going to happen? Simple reason: you have bullshit relational dynamics. Just because cheating is an answer for men that can't maintain a relationship, doesn't mean that all men have this problem. Better men select women who can go the distance in the 1st place.
No, you are full of shit and trying to rationalize your own view of sexuality. Take a look in the mirror.
This is your bullshit right here. You are a failure at keeping a faithful man. Rather than admit your failure and work on it, you say "all men are unfaithful" so that you don't have to take any responsibility for your failure.

You're confused: you think tactics for getting laid have something to do with having an emotionally healthy relationship. Aside from "relationships require a baseline of confidence and sexual attraction" you're way off the mark. Frankly you're not relationship material. Excepting perhaps a woman who's polyamorous as a matter of ideology. You're going to keep stoking that cold place where you say "I have to dominate, I have to be in control" all your life until a woman that actually mattered to you stops putting up with your shit and walks away from you. Or maybe you'll successfully repel all worthwhile women in the 1st place, thereby avoiding any failure and self-fulfilling your prophecy.

You really think your PUA bullshit is man enough to marry someone, have kids, and not end up divorced? Try it. Roll up your sleeves and do the work. There's a zillion single Moms out there that walked away from assholes like you. They're all over the personals, looking for a real man to pick up the pieces from their own stupidity... but at least they wised up. Ok, maybe you don't want any kids. At least then, admit there's a whole dimension to "relationship" that you're never going to face. The good news for humanity is, you won't be passing your genes into the gene pool. Evolutionarily, you lose.

Well, unless you can pull off true Alpha Male stuff, like conquering a country, having zillions of concubines, and fathering many children for your dynasty. It worked for the USA's "founding fathers," it was quite literal. But there aren't many slaveholding countries anymore so you're going to have trouble playing the game at that level.

Me, too. The point is:

Monogamous relationship=commitment (out of integrity) to not have sex with another partner

Cheating=breaking that commitment

Monogamous relationship=/=cheating

Why be in a relationship in the first place if you aren't going to honor your commitment? Bedrock said that real men don't cheat. I have to agree. We will be able to handle a relationship that isn't sexually satisfying without compromising our integrity, or end the relationship if the problem cannot be solved. Thus, cheating is not necessary. Either be in the relationship and honor it, or leave.

And I wouldn't pick on blondguy... he obviously knows what he wants (open relationships), he honors that position, and I respect that.

_________________
- Lux et Veritas -

It's interesting that you draw a moral equivalency between behaving in a dominant, alpha way towards a woman (which 80-90% of women with high self esteem respond favourably to) and being a repressive slaveholder.

I think that you are assuming male and female psychology are fundamentally equivalent, because society has said that men and women should be treated equally. Men and women SHOULD have totally equal RIGHTS to do what they please, have any job they want, get paid equally, and everything else. But that doesn't mean they ARE the same, ACT the same, DESIRE the same things and RESPOND in the same way to different circumstances.

During my "nice guy" phase, I thought that being respectful towards women meant asking them what they preferred to do, buying them dinners and gifts, doing everything I could for them, and enjoying sex with them if they bestowed it upon me as though it was a magical gift they "allowed" me the pleasure of having when they wanted to.

Me personally, I consider myself somewhat of a dominant personality. I really don't respond well to being told what to do, to having decisions made for me, to have someone try and protect me, or anything like that. However, I've learnt that in the the context of mutual respect within a relationship, MOST women do actually respond favourably to having a man be a dominant leader - from telling her where to meet him and how to dress, to when to kiss him, to telling her to swallow all of his cum like a naughty little slut. Yes, women LIKE and are VERY turned on by being dominated, especially in the bedroom. In the context of a respectful relationship with a high-self esteem women during sexual stimulation, she WANTS you to dominate her and call her dirty things, pull her hair, slap her ass, and so on. I do this "alpha bullshit" not because I want to hurt or demean women, but because they respond to it and WANT it. I wouldn't do it otherwise.

Now, you call me an asshole. But here's the thing. I'm the guy who RECOGNISES, ACKNOWLEDGES and OPENLY AND HONESTLY admits that I am a man with sexual desires. I think it's absurd to pledge my fidelity to a woman until I've known her for a significant amount of time, love her, and want ONLY her because she has so many of the qualities I'm looking for in a partner. Until that point, I make it clear FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, that it's non-exclusive, and give her the FREE CHOICE to either stay with me, or leave at that point.

I don't know about your city, but in London and New York, cities I've lived in, there are MANY women who will see one guy 3, 4, 5 times and go on dates where he buys her dinner but not fuck him, whilst at the same time seeing one guy casually every month, having a long term guy, and be starting to date and just start fucking another guy. This is normal. If I was the new guy, I would not expect fidelity from her, in fact I assume the girls I'm seeing are probably seeing at least 1-2 other guys.

If the relationship develops, then the issue might come up later. But to me it's as ridiculous as meeting a guy 2-3 times and then making him pledge to be your best friend. Why?

I also reiterate that it's great for the relationship you guys have because it keeps BOTH of you really trying hard to present yourself as well as possible ALL THE TIME. You can't just start not giving a shit, treating her badly, gaining weight or anything like that, because then you'll look shittier in comparison to the other guys. Similarly she can't take you for granted, or (BIG REASON) use witholding sex as an emotional weapon in the relationship.

Now, I'm not saying that you shouldn't be OPEN to commitment in the future, but I think it's actually far more reasonable, emotionally mature and sensible to start off all relationships as open INITIALLY, for all these reasons, and then only LATER decide mutually to make the bigger commitment.

Now, as for my own experience, I haven't been in any long-term relationship with a girl who EVER broke up with me because of my "alpha bullshit" or anything like that. I'm friends with most of my exes and you can ask any of them if I ever treated them badly at all, and they'll all say no.

Usually, I either lose a girl within the first week or two because we're not a good fit or she doesn't accept the open thing (fair enough). OR, we stay together for a good while and one of us gets bored with the other, moves away, or we just fall apart and stay friends. The girls I've broken up with tend to always want me back, and I get emails from more than one girl saying how in love they still are with me months afterwards, so I think I'm doing something right.

Now, you're free to have your own moral beliefs maybe based on religion or something, which you can go ahead and judge me with. But frankly I think it's the 21st century and men and women if they really are to be truly equal, should be able to fuck each other in any way they see fit, and as long as everyone's on the same page, nobody is lying, I really don't see the problem. It's the kind of moralistic arguments that are holdovers from a deeply religious society that make women unable to act freely on their sexual desires and think themselves "sluts," which I think is a terrible double standard and causes a lot of conflict. It happens a LOT less in Scandinavian countries, Russia and Eastern Europe, which I think is a great thing.

_________________
SEX Technique Material http://bit.ly/iFdky0

FREE PDF w Openers, Date ideas and Videos on Direct: http://www.sashapua.com

Your attitudes are fine for staying single. The bottom line is that you have not been married, had kids, gotten divorced, and watched people pick up the pieces of their lives. There is a kind of relationship you simply haven't dealt with, and you need to know it is NOT the same thing as the PUA stuff you're doing now. Just remember that once you marry a women, she will stop putting up with your alpha male bullshit eventually. That's why divorce rates are so high. They take half your money and your kids, so if those things are important to you, wise up about what communication in a marriage really is. As long as you don't permanently internalize your PUA and insist on all the dominance stuff forever, you'll probably be fine.

I have my doubts that open-ended marriages work emotionally. I suppose you'll cross that bridge when you come to it. I imagine it's not impossible, but the polyamorous people I've met have been pretty deeply fucked up. Their relationships have way too many moving parts; it's hard enough to deal with the emotional needs of 1 other person, let alone 2, 3, or 4, let alone networks of strangers bouncing their emotional problems around in a big game of "telephone." How do you like drama affecting your gal when you don't even know the people who are having the drama? If people can keep a clean firewall between sex and emotions that's great, but I have my doubts that most people are capable of that. Biologically we have feelings of exclusion for a reason, it's how our species evolved. People try to kid themselves that it's "just sex" but we are not actually wired for that. Oh and it sucks for the kids apparently. No emotional stability about who Mommy and Daddy are.

Also, a note on "absurdity." I think it's absurd that you can't tell in the first 2 weeks whether a woman is serious relationship material or not. That's generally been my cutoff point, when it dawns on me how crazy the bitch is and I drop her like a hot potato. You actually make a deliberate choice to repel "serious" women, so that you can get laid as much as possible. Since you do that from Day One, I'm not sure why anyone's going to fall in love with you for a LTR, when you're not offering any emotional stability at all. "Wrong business model," basically. That's your choice, but I wonder when / if you'll switch gears and decide you want something other than unlimited sex. In life we have to make choices, we can't necessarily have everything. You may think that you can have "free love" and emotional health, but there are long documentaries on an entire generation of people who tried those experiments and failed. On the other hand the general failure makes for good TV, and maybe you can research up some specific success stories somewhere. Don't be shocked if you don't ever find it though!

I could not disagree with Roz any more.

First off I was married for 5 years never cheated even when another woman approached me. Not because fear of getting caught but because it was wrong.

Don't bring nature into this saying animals do it so we have to. We are also top of the food chain yet there are vegan, vegeterian people that choose not to eat meat. Just cause you can, and maybe should doesn't mean you will.


As for the not getting sex and needing to get off. That is what masterbating is for bro. If your girl won't do you for a few days, you take care of it yourself.

I can only think of three people I know who've cheated on their partners. All of them were women.

It's possible that the men cheat too, but are too ashamed to share info about it, but I cannot think of any guys I know who've cheated on girlfriends (edit - lie. I can think of 1).

As a thought, is it possible that men are happy to do it for sex and thus can ignore it afterwards and easily hide it. For a girl, is it the case that she will be more likely to become emotionally attached to a guy which is far harder to hide?

Sorry but that is complete bollocks. Women are attracted to guys just the same as we are to women. Women in relationships will still look at other guys and be attracted, just like men will.

I don't buy this bullshit that women are naturally monogomous and don't like to sleep around, and that men are naturally made to fuck everything that moves. I was out with my girlfriend last night (who by the way I HAVEN'T and would NEVER cheat on) and her girl friends. One of the girls thought the guy bartender was really hot, and she ended up having sex with him that night. She is also talking to a lot more guys than him. Before me my girlfriend has slept with abount 30 different people. I've also been with girls who have boyfriends. So yeah, I completely disagree with everything you've just said. Sure people can't help being attracted to a lot more people than just their partner, that is only natural. Just because you choose to be with someone does not mean you can shut off your natural drive to spread your genes. A successful monogomous relationship doesn't depend on your natural drives shutting off, it depends on fighting them to stay faithful to your partner.

Also another thought since guys on here seem to like to come up with all this evolutionary psychology stuff to back up their theories, and because I'm bored and feel like doing a bit of KJing... Did you know that the average time it takes a man to orgasm is 5 minutes, yet for a woman it takes 15? Every man's semen contains a spermicide, to kill other guys' sperm. A man gets really tired and wants to fall asleep right after sex. Ever wondered why a guy has to use a sort of 'plunging' motion while fucking? It's because before anyone came up with the idea of relationships and monogomy, a woman would have multiple sex partners. She would have sex with a man, for 5 minutes, who would then finish and fall asleep. The girl takes 15 minutes to finish, so she wouldn't be finished yet. She'd go find another guy, who would then plunge her pussy (filled with the last guys sperm) with his cock, finish and go to sleep. She'd repeat until she was finished herself. She'd have all these different guys' semen in her, and the reason the semen contains spermicide is because of the competition to get the girl pregnant and pass on the genes. Girls are naturally wired to be monogomous? Bullshit.

I think it's sexist to say that one sex is more prone to cheating than another, I've seen plenty of women cheat. The only thing that stops someone from cheating is self-control. I honestly would never cheat on my girlfriend even if I knew I wouldn't get caught, and I'd expect my girlfriend to be exactly the same.

Do you have an academic cite for your "5 vs. 15 minutes" claim? I know about the different roles of sperm, the spermicide, the sperm that form a web to block other sperm, etc. But I see no evolutionary advantage in a man getting tired after 5 minutes. A man would be better off moving on to another woman every 5 minutes. The kind of "group gang bang" you describe is true of monkeys, and was probably true of our common ancestor, but we diverged. We are the only species that hides the fact that the woman is in heat. This keeps the males guessing; they can't just deposit their spunk and walk away. They have to stick around to ensure that she really got pregnant and that it's really their offspring. We are also the only mammals that have sex face to face instead of "doggie style."

Bear in mind that carrying rocks, throwing rocks, carrying weapons, and homicide are also old evolutionary aspects of our species. I have no idea how old the impulse to kill unfaithful mates is, but it's probably pretty old. Doesn't mean mates won't cheat, but it does pit two competing strategies against each other. It's not a given that "sneaking around and cheating" is the more successful strategy. Any more than having bigger muscles makes you more successful than having a bigger brain.

Agreed. Honestly some people have morals and integrity, and I'm not a scumbag cheating type of guy. I would never cheat on my girl, and I find its not hard for me to resist cheating, all you have to do is say no. Also I know tons of scumbag whore like women, who will cheat on you in a heartbeat

Its only cheating if you get caught!! so dont get caught lol...

_________________
A wise man once told me
"Bros before hoes, unless hoes have no clothes!"

A lie is a lie, regardless of whether or not you get caught. The problem with making a habit of lying or cheating, is it turns into a habit, even an addiction. How long can you habitually lie or cheat before you are caught? It also damages something within you.

First off, this is a great article that touches a lot of these issues, (great film as well) http://roissy.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/beta-valentine/

Now.

My attitudes are fine for staying single. Not true. I've had relationships lasting for 6, 8 months up to 4 YEARS. As for emotional stability, I've had quite a few women fall in love with me precisely because they admire the fact that they get attracted to me like the badboy player types, yet they get the emotional connection they usually get from the nice guy, all rolled into one

You say I haven't gotten married or divorced. DAMN FUCKING RIGHT. I think marriage is FUCKING RETARDED and anyone who does it is an IDIOT. It's a holdover from a much more religious and culturally repressive society than the one we currently inhabit - when men would literally BUY and OWN women, their property and their chastity like animals or slaves. Except now, if we have a disagreement, she gets half my shit. If anyone in Negotiations 101 made that deal, they'd get an F.

The fact that you've been through some serious emotional shit because of marriage or divorce or whatever does not make you any more able to MORALLY judge the validity of my point of view. Nor does it make you any more able to judge it from a purely logistical view either.

The fact is (despite what you say about "biological hard-wiring"), there are many cultures throughout the world that practice different ways of male-female interaction, from matriarchies, to polygamy, to societies where women take as many lovers as they choose, and the children are raised by the whole community, without there being "father" and "mother" roles in the sense that we have them. There simply is no "right" or "wrong." The argument that because traditional western style marriage between a man a woman is more PREVALENT its therefore better is flawed for the same reason that the prevalence of chinese or english does not show that they are somehow inherently "better" languages.

You say that my notion of being an alpha, dominant male is "PUA" stuff that only works in pickup and doesn't form a healthy relationship. You're completely wrong. Being an alpha male is attractive for women FOREVER, regardless of the context. "Being alpha" is not a bunch of routines designed to make a girl fuck you. "Being alpha" is about adopting the actions, mindset, values, and behaviour patterns of the men who are dominant leaders - winners, #1s, CEOs, and so forth. From having direction and motivation and goals in life, to acting with calm body language, to making plans, to leading her, to fucking her right, all of these things are part of being a real man and they will make her continue to be attracted to you. The ONLY downside is if you go TOO far, and mistake being dominant for being OVERaggressive, controlling, violent, uncaring or emotionally unresponsive. But these are mistakes in the same way that being too beta or not alpha enough are.

What ACTUALLY happens more often than not, and why many marriages break up, is because the man STOPS acting alpha and dominant, and starts become beta over time to "please" and "compromise" for the woman. As time goes on, and she tests him, breaks down his frame, catches him in his lies, nags him about petty stuff, and he gives in and puts up with it more and more, she LOSES more and more attraction for him, he loses sexual value, and the alpha dominant frame of the relationship. Before you know it, SHE is often cheating on HIM with a real alpha male whilst he is "compromising" by taking care of the kids, doing the ironing, and listening to her pointless bullshit arguments.

You say polyamoroury is difficult? It's really not. I stay with a woman for exactly as long as we have a fun time with each other and things are going well. I never lie about who I am or what I do, she knows all about my goals and ideals and what I'm doing with my life. If she wants to stay with me and invest in that and be a part of my life, great. If she can't deal with it, then that's ok, we can move on.

FAR from "repelling" serious girls, I have many women who are young professionals, educated, well spoken, articulate and very attractive who are more than interested in dating me on a non-exclusive basis.

After a time of a few months (not weeks - I'll only see a girl 1-2 times a week, so 2 weeks would only be 3-4 dates, after which time I think expecting exclusivity would be laughably premature), if I REALLY like them and they REALLY like me, then I am always open to being exclusive, at which point I tell my other girls that I'm exclusive with someone now and we have to be friends. I can always go back to fucking them after, if the exclusive thing doesn't work out (a very important thing for the girl to understand - I have IMMEDIATE, AVAILABLE options, so if she starts trying to emotionally manipulate me by witholding sex, she knows I can immediately go somewhere else and get it, and thus she cannot use this as a weapon).

Finally, I don't understand the idea that you have to separate love and sex at all. If I know a girl for 4, 5, 6 months and see her a lot and really like her, I'm going to start having serious emotions for her (which often makes the sex a LOT better). But that in no way excludes the fact that I can also be emotionally attached to and be fucking at least 1 or 2 OTHER girls in exactly the same way on different days.

If a girl REALLY likes you for 99% of your amazing qualities, then that little pang of jealousy she gets when she has the idea you're probably seeing other girl(s) is something she'll just deal with. In the same way as if you're in an exclusive relationship and your girl goes to see male friends or ex boyfriends, you might feel that little pang but you just deal with it. It's part of life. The fact that it will always be there is not a reason to discount non-exclusivity as a possibility. Just because approach anxiety and being blown out never go away doesn't mean that you should abandon cold approach

_________________
SEX Technique Material http://bit.ly/iFdky0

FREE PDF w Openers, Date ideas and Videos on Direct: http://www.sashapua.com