Hey PUA community. This topic is about winning at LDRs (Long Distance Relationships). See, here's the thing. An all too common story. My girl and I met in uni, in our last month of spring 2013 semester. For the 2013-14 year we had an award winning relationship. However, I graduated and moved about 90 minutes away, to pursue my master's. She's graduating this May, and planning to move back into her parents house (also 90 minutes away, its like a triangle).

Read: Relationship is about two years old. I'm 31, she's 21. I've had about two dozen partners before her, but I'm her first. It's the longest relationship either of us has had by far, and best, that's that is unquestionable when it's not LDR.

We've done everything great so far in the LDR - I've got years of research and experience (college kids moving away from each other, overseas military tours, etc) and I've narrowed it down to the ONE thing I feel my LDR is missing.

An end date.

Plans for the future are very vague. My plan is to finish graduate school and probably work in this area for a couple years. She plans to move back home for a year, work her high school job while searching for a more meaningful/relevant one. I don't think moving in together is a good idea unless maybe it was temporary, and I've told her I'm willing to do that. For now, there's no real reason to END my relationship with her. That's not what I'm asking. My doubts are more like "if this LDR isn't going to end, maybe I should pursue a more serious local relationship alongside it". Once my girlfriend moves back home, I strongly believe she's gonna go bat shit crazy in much less than a year - she went pretty crazy last winter break she went home - and I'm just not sure how I'm going to deal with that.

How important is it to have an end date to the distance? Even though my relationship is not that far, it's certainly out of the "drive every day" range for broke college students. Daily communication and weekly visits have been enough so far. Should I just be patient, and more open to new relationships local to me? I've just met someone in my city that seems to have good potential. I'm wondering if I should just accept that my relationship with her made for a great end to my undergraduate experience, and maybe I should start moving on from thinking about a future with us. I guess my original plan was that I would like her to try staying with me after graduating for a couple weeks or a month, to see if she finds a good job and would like to get her own place in my city, and always be able to move back in with her mom if it doesn't work out.

1 - Our relationship is at it's best when we were both at our undergrad college together.

2 - Our relationship is a strong LDR when she still lives at that college.

3- Our relationship is most strained when she lives with her mom, in her small hometown.

I don't know how long I can handle option 3. But it's looking like the indefinite course in a couple months time. Maybe I just need a little patience, or faith. Maybe it's worth trying to see a premarital counselor with her to try and figure out if this is ever going to work out for us. My girlfriend is only 21 years old - perhaps the best thing is just to accept circumstances and remain as we are.

Get a FWB let the LDR take it's course. Can you fuck at her Mom's?

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They call me the cat whisperer, cause I know exactly what the pussy needs.

Can't really fuck at her Mom's, no. It's one of my best arguments as to why she should visit me more often when she lives there. I do compensate her for the extra gas money to keep things even.

Working on the local FWB. Should happen pretty naturally as I expand my social network, and start actively trying. Not something I worry about usually, between grad school and not meeting quality females much.

I don't go out to the bars, since I don't drink. Right now my venues are 1) school/classmates, 2) online dating, and 3) scouting dive bars for bands and open mic nights.

For the 2013-14 year we had an award winning relationship

what does that mean?

If your girl is getting ready to graduate college then why isn't she already searching for a more meaningful/relevant job? Why go back to the high school job and move in with her mom for a year? Particularly if living with her mom drives her crazy. Can she not afford her own place or does she want to live with her mom?
What's her response to your original plan to have her stay with you for a little while and look for a job in your area?
I went back and took the time to read a couple of your other posts for background. Can you still see yourself spending the rest of your life with this girl? If yes, then I say stick it out no matter where she ends up living. She's only 21. She won't want to live with her mom forever (at least I would hope not).

"Award winning relationship" - best relationship I've ever had. Unquestionably. The only thing that has EVER caused any problems is some triangulation with my girlfriend's mother/family, which I actually posted about on these forums about a year ago. We're well past that, and her family now gets alone fine with me.

She is searching for a more meaningful job, but her degrees are in English/Psychology. She's trying to get some sort of editorial job, but doesn't spend a lot of time on it because it's been pretty fruitless so far. She can't afford her own place. My girlfriend tends to forget how miserable she gets at home while she's living at school. She's definitely spends most of her time in the present, if that makes sense.

She's not ready to move in together, and she thought that's what I asked before. I think she's more open to staying with me temporarily while she looks for a job, but doesn't want to for a number of worries. She looks up to me in a lot of ways, and takes pride in her independence. She would prefer to find a job herself and get her own apartment. I think she's worried that staying with me will be too much - limited friend/family support, dependence, transition from LDR to cohabiting, and also getting too settled in and not being able to leave.

Can I see myself spending the rest of my life with this girl? Absolutely. You're right, I should just stick it out and have some faith. My intuition tells me that she will move in with her mom this summer, and that stress will motivate her to move forward in life. Just as well, if she sees herself spending the rest of her life with me, she will come to that conclusion too.

I know it's only a 90 minute drive, but I really just miss the close relationship with her sometimes. Most of the time, neither of us really think about when we'll live near each other again, because we do get to see each other weekly. Sure, I can pursue other relationships around here, and those are better than nothing, but she's who I really want to come home to.

Wanted to put out a bit of an update, and get some advice.

We almost broke up last Sunday. When I say that, I mean she almost broke up with me. When I tried to take back a piece of jewelry I gave her when we started dating, she started sobbing uncontrollably, and I agreed to keep trying. Things have been kind of chaotic lately. Basically, she's at a point where she's got only two months left of college and has become VERY busy. Not just academics, but extra curriculars and social life. We're both really "feeling the distance", and the honeymoon is definitely over. I don't know if transitioning into the next part of the relationship is possible long distance, but we both want to work on it.

Really it's about me. It's probably a traditional LDR story. One person moves away, while the one left behind continues thriving socially. The one who moves (me, in this case) becomes more dependent on the one behind (my girlfriend) emotionally and socially. I was so comfortable and confident in the relationship when I moved that I forgot the basics. Or it might just be the beginning of a new chapter. I know self-improvement is the answer, no matter what. I started exercising again, make some new friends at grad school, and reconnected with some estranged family members.

What it comes down to is that the power has shifted. I once held the power unquestionably, but not so much that it was abusive or anything. Probably something like 60/40. Over time, it's gotten closer to 50/50 (a few months ago) then as this semester progressed she has holding the power more. She's in "these are my last days of college" mode, and becoming even more social and active than before. She's getting more attention from other guys, particularly one popular foreign exchange student. That being said, I guarantee she's not seeing anyone else right now, but she is thinking about it. It's "grass is green" stuff.

There are two logical reasons that the relationship is still continuing.
1 - The chemistry when not LDR is still quite strong. The power shifts back to me temporarily when we visit each other - esp when she visits me. We "work so well when we're together", and the attraction / sex is still awesome. It's very easy for me to be the confident, dominant guy I was when she met me when I'm there in person.
2 - She moves back home in two months. Gone is all those college friends, the boys, the rewarding coursework. All that's left is mediocre jobs, unavailable friends, limited dating options (small town), and family drama. I'm 99.9% certain the power dynamic will shift greatly in my favor again. Even if we break up now, she's going to be pursuing me during that time. Even my girlfriend knows that any new relationships she could start at this point in her life would be just from missing me and our relationship. Two months is not enough time to try indefinite long distance relationship, and she knows it.

The crossroads I am at is tricky. I find myself getting a lot more needy lately. Our conversations have less spark, things just aren't as fun now. She doesn't ask much about my life anymore, or offer as much about hers. I find myself asking her more questions in general, mostly about how her life is going. We used to talk about each others lives daily. I've been drawing back my attention, but I don't know if it's enough or that I can keep handling it. I find myself constantly ruminating about her, our relationship, my friends and family. It's like I have this craving for social connections that I've been putting off for months (cold ass winter didn't help) and it's coming off needy and desperate for those around me. In the context of a romantic relationship, you can see how this is a VERY BAD THING.

So I think the easy thing here would be to just break up with her. It wouldn't stop me from obsessing at first, but no contact would at least ensure I don't kill the attraction completely. More importantly, I would be able to focus more easily on improving myself without being concerned about her or our relationship.

The harder thing is to keep sticking it out. If I was a real alpha this would be a non-issue. I've been living in a new city for nearly 8 months and my social life is pretty moot. A lot of it still revolves around my girlfriend and our old friend groups. It's getting better, but it's not enough.

So what would the "alpha" thing to do here be? I feel like breaking up because I can't handle my own emotions is pretty weak. On the other hand, if I can't find a way to manage them, I end up putting too much stress on my girlfriend and then I get dumped sooner or later. The good thing about LDR here, is that since most communication is by text I can put more thought into my responses / attention. What I feel like right now is I need some more full time social obligations. People to talk to and do things with that aren't just related to work/school. Basically, getting a life.

I really don't know what advice to give you. I'm no "real alpha" myself. I have to ask though, are you getting bored with her? You stated that the honeymoon stage is definitely over and "things just aren't as fun now." Well things aren't always going to be fun. Sometimes they might be downright shitty. Do you really love this girl? Can you imagine still loving her in 10 years or 20? What about when she's old and wrinkly and has gray hair? Can you still see yourself spending your life with her then? If yes, then maybe you need to hang in there. Your feelings for her probably will wax and wane but love is a choice. One of my favorite quotes is, "Real love isn't just a euphoric, spontaneous feeling--it's a deliberate choice--a plan to love each other for better and worse, for richer and poorer, in sickness and in health." I know it sounds so cliche but I'm serious man.
What do you love about this girl? What makes you want to spend the rest of your life with her?

Have you heard of DBT (dialectical behavior therapy)? There's a particular skill I'm thinking of but I can't remember the name. Anyway when distressful thoughts come, you just let them float by like leaves floating on a river. Just step back and observe them. This won't let me put a url in but if you google "DBT self help: taking hold of your mind" it should be the first link that comes up.

If you feel like you need more social obligations then find some. Don't sit around feeling sorry for yourself. Sorry if that sounds a little harsh. Seriously though, what do you like to do? Find some people who have the same interests as yourself. Maybe you could try volunteering somewhere. I know you want things that aren't related to work or school but does your college have any clubs/activities that are appealing to you?

So maybe none of this advice will be helpful or maybe you've heard it all before, but I just wanted to put my two cents in.
Good luck Smash.

Nah, Weaver, that's the kind of reply that's probably best. Asking the right questions, yea? To answer most of em... yes. Absolutely. The distance is the only real deal-breaker. This is the longest continuous relationship I've had, because she's the first that I felt like sticking with past the honeymoon. My previous relationships were no brainers - usually I stuck around for weeks or months just for the attention and sex.

Yeah, I've heard about DBT. Had some education about in college/grad school, just haven't practiced it yet with any clients. I'm seeing my counselor on Friday, I'll mention it there.

Things are going pretty well night now at least. Lately, some of her friends and family have been attacking her decision to stay with me. It's like reverse straw-man though - all I can see so far is her jumping to my defense, and getting angry at people who aren't supportive. Her interest has risen lately, for sure.

Went out with some people I barely knew from grad school for a game night at someones house. Striking up conversations with fellow classmates (nearly all women) I've barely spoken to before. It's on the up and up. A handful of attractive ones definitely seem interested, so it's a nice esteem boost. Feels like I'm getting my confidence back.

The hardest thing right now is just giving her some space. It needs to be done, we both know it and have verbally acknowledged it, and it's getting easier. She said the other day "I used to be just another star in your sky, but after you moved, I started feeling like the only one". That was the gist. She's not usually very forthcoming about her thoughts and feelings - something she calls compartmentalization (I agree with this assessment). She's gotten better over the course of our relationship, and she's still better than most (young) women I know, but I still wonder if that's a permanent personality trait or something that usually changes with age. I would guess the latter.

A passing thought I had today I would like to share with you guys.

This topic started because I'm not satisfied with an indefinite LDR. Soon, I will have been with my girlfriend for two years. To me, this is a "shit or get off the pot" stage of relationships. I've already discussed that my girlfriend isn't ready / willing to move in together at this time. Currently, I'm just waiting it out, but I think it is time I set a date.

"By August 31st of this year, I will not be in an indefinite long distance relationship."

I start my second and final year of graduate school in August. If my girlfriend and I have not made plans to "promote" our relationship by then, be it cohabitation or engagement, then I would rather end the relationship so that I might pursue other women. Considering my original offer to my girlfriend was to try living together after she graduates so that she might establish her career in the same city I live in and get her own apartment. She's not ready for that, and I agreed to wait it out. I can't say I can honestly pursue other women while I am still in a relationship with my girlfriend. By saying "I want you to make a decision by this date" is a compromise of my needs and hers. I've dated girls that were younger than her in my past that wanted to settle down with me in less than two years. I'm 31 years old. I love my girlfriend, and I do believe she and I could have a good future together, but I just don't think I have the patience to wait that long. I don't see the point in trying to make something work that never will. Regardless of her age, if she's not ready for that next step, then I would rather go our separate ways and give dating other women a fair chance while the opportunities are prime. My second year of graduate school, as a social worker, gives me a TON of opportunities to date ambitious, attractive, and intelligent women who also share my career passions.

Another way I've considered approaching this, at some point in the near future, is to simply propose. I've been thinking about it for several months now. I'm at a point in my life where if I am dating a woman for two years, I will either propose marriage / cohabitation or end the relationship. I haven't proposed marriage to my girlfriend yet because I have not been sure she would say yes. She is still very young. All I know is that I am not satisfied with the LDR in it's current state, and I'm trying to decide if I should stay or go.

Casual approach - Ride the storm out, pursue other women without cheating

Definitive approach - You have 5 months to decide if you're willing to move forward

Drastic measure - Pop the question in the next couple months

If she's not willing to even move in with you while she searches for a job and apartment, then how she would react to you proposing to her? She's 10 years younger than you right? You've been around and now you're ready to settle down and maybe try the marriage thing and she's just starting out on her life. She probably has all kinds of things she would like to do before she commits to something like marriage/cohabiting. Still, I think you did say somewhere that she's mature for her age and you two have been together almost 2 years so that shows some level of commitment on her part.

Honestly I don't know what I would do in your place. The definitive approach might pressure her to make a decision that she's not ready to make. So could the drastic measure.
Have you considered premarital counseling/couples counseling just to see if you two have the potential for a future together? It could help you see if she's ready for the next step or if you should think more seriously about ending this relationship.

I would say stick it out for a little while longer and try to get some couples counseling if you can. And who knows? Maybe a summer at home with her family will make her see that she wants to move on in life with you.

Weaver - we are actually looking into some pre-marital/couples counseling right now. The tricky part is the distance, but I'm exploring options regarding SPAM/video conferencing. I actually just met with a faculty member at my college who has a background in the field to discuss some strategies. In some ways being engaged isn't quite as intimidating as cohabitation, and any engagement period would be at least 1 year (my standard) but probably more.

I've kind of de-prioritized her the last couple days. By that I mean I'm not paying as much attention to my cell phone in general, and avoiding lengthy/deep conversations via text message. Wednesday night I fell asleep early after a previous all nighter, and woke up at 5am to 6 missed text messages from her. They culminated in her having a mini "freakout" and admitting that while shes said she wasn't ever really afraid of losing me, she is now "that is a distinct possibility". I apologized in the morning that I fell asleep (accidently on the couch, when we had planned to SPAM that night) but we caught up the following evening.

I think your plan of seeking counseling and just sticking it out for now is the best. I think that emotions from both her and I will restabilize as the summer months go by. Putting an ultimatum on her isn't really effective, as you said, because it forces her to make a decision she's not ready to make. She has to come to that conclusion herself. All I have to do right now is enjoy the relationship for what it's worth, give her some space, and let her to come to me.

I know it's been a couple months since you posted this so thought I'd ask how things are working out for you?