I've been reading about the Ross Jeffries school of pickup lately (after being an avid student of Mystery and DeAngelo), currently reading "Secrets of Speed Seduction, Home Study Course Book and Work Book." I also just finished reading a little book about the October Man Sequence and I'm currently reading The Game (past the part where they mention the Ross Jeffries methods). It seems like the methods he uses work well and are possibly even more effective and reliable than MM and DYD, but who here actually uses them? I see on this forum everyone is talking about following the traditional "be the alpha male" style and using methods based on the M3 model or something similar, but there are no stories or field/lay reports in which anyone mentions trance words, embedded commands, creating states, anything like that. Maybe a few people use it in the field, but it's definitely nowhere near as popular as the "normal" stuff.

Why? Is it because it's all a scam and it doesn't really work? Is it harder to learn for most people? What am I missing here?

Yes, it's hard to learn.

I don't really mention too much SS-related material in my FRs because whenever I do use SS, it's just little bits here and there within conversation. Nothing too big to mention. I usually don't do full blown patterns when I'm out sarging. I try every pattern that I want to try, though.

Maybe I should write a FR about all the times I've fucked up the Fascination Patten
There's this ONE spot where I keep forgetting the transition to the next line haha

I usually do these for girls who I establish long term relationships with.
When she's over at my place where distractions are unlikely I use my own NLP routines and The October Man is a great tool that can be played around with a lot.

So yeah, PUAF is about 80% rAFCs or newbie PUAs. NLP is more than just pick up and requires different skills than M3 pick up and such. Also, it appears "harder" than the other methods to PUAs getting started. And once someone gets started in one method, he tends to keep to it.

NLP itself won't get you laid. You need the personality and skills to open a girl and get her comfortable enough to be alone with you.

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http://highschoolpuas.proboards.com

Grape's eBook of 2009 (71 pages of useful information) http://www.scribd.com/doc/24523878/Grap ... ok-of-2009

I use SS as my main form of PU, mixed with a little push/pull and frame stealing from my old buddy Swingcat ( a former SS student).
I like SS the best because it's fun, it's congruent with me (I'm an artist/writer so it's only natural that my conversation is emotionally stimulating), the skills themselves make you a man that can give a woman something that almost no other man can give her (there's lots of people who can give cocky/funny), and because The Game and VH1 and RSD marketing have made SS unpopular in the communitty (which means an SSer is truly unique among pick-up artists and has even less chance of getting caught).
Now, it is harder to learn than other methods and it took me a year before I started getting results. But the results have been insane!

I personally just use tiny bits of SS, the amount that I'm comfortable with.

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There is NO secret ingredient. Theres just you.

NLP, patterns takes some time to really get accustomed to using in many matters of speaking. One of the reasons, in my opinion that people like the M3 model and others is because NLP to some, gives them the creeps. I don't personally hold that view, but I have heard of many people who do.

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i lust for jessica alba, but now since she is preggers. I am lusting for Nicole!!! It's New Year's Day. It was Ben Franklin who said, "Be always at war with your vices, at peace with your neighbors, and let each new year find you a better man."

Yes, I'm similar in that way. I'm a musician and a writer who is already good at moving people's emotions and having stimulating conversations, so being an expert at SS seems more accessible to me than the "alpha male" stuff.

I'd like to talk some more. What makes SS harder to learn? Why did it take a year? Can you give me any important advice for my journey into that discipline, or some shortcuts?

If you're really decided upon learning this stuff, go to http://speedseduction.biz/index.php
Which is the home-page of RJ, and SS.
There's still seminars and stuff to learn it, and judging from the effect you can see in this old interview here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k4tuZPGM0s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa1iDsiG5Pc

It is immensely effective.

I use SS from time to time, and I have to say, the biggest difficulty in learning to use it is your own internal resistance.

It's easy to convince yourself that opening with something like "who lies more, men or women?" will at the very least, not embarrass you. Mystery's material generally seems familiar and safe. Take a look at Ross Jeffries' material, on the other hand, and you're more likely to think "WTF? Serioulsy? I'm supposed to say THAT?"

After you have some experience with it (or experience with NLP or hypnosis), SS doesn't really seem so uncanny. You'll get used to embedding commands, directing trances and emotions, and all that. It does take time though.

All i would say is that with this kind of power comes great responsibility.

If you do decide to learn NLP, just make sure you set your own boundaries. There is nothing cool about preying on those who may be more suggestable than others.

Just my opinion.

"I'd like to talk some more. What makes SS harder to learn?"

Well the patterns are based on the way WOMEN communicate, not the way men communicate, and therefore it seems really strange to most men at first. You have to get your tonality right, and drop your tone with the embeds without being too obvious. You also have to learn to really pay attention to a woman, learn her trance ords and symbols and processes. Also, alot of men are scared of getting caught and it fucks them up in the beginning. It's also more straightforward than indirect game, so you have to have more balls. Memorizing patterns also takes up alot of time.

"Why did it take a year?"

For me it took a year because I had alot of inner game issues to overcome so that my consciousness was a good medium through which to direct the technology, and because I had to fuck it up alot in order to become congruent with it. There are guys on the SS list who get results in a matter of months, however, so it's not as hard for everyone I suppose.

"Can you give me any important advice for my journey into that discipline, or some shortcuts?"

Get the BHSC from Ross's site, so that you can be on the SS list and get feedback from people who are using the same methods. Record yourself using the patterns and play them back until you sound natural. Get Ross's or Hypnotica's "Inner Game" products. The "Skillsbuilder" pattern rehearser from straightforward, Inc is also a big help. But most of all, go out there and fuck up using the tech until you get it right!!

Get Dave Riker's Speed Seduction Technical Manual and also his Language and Conversation Course. The whole point of Speed Seduction is to make it easier to seduce her because she will link a lot of positive/good emotional states to..YOU!

Although, it is still going to be your duty to make her feel like she's being screened (qualify, in other words) and kino escalate. Also, as far as patterns, canned patterns (i.e. "Incredible Connection", "Discovery Channel", etc.) are NOT the only way to use patterns. Quoting Ross Jeffries, "ANYTHING that captures and leads a woman's imagination IS a pattern". Even asking a simple question (now, referred to by the SS community as "seduction questions") such as, "If you could go anywhere, without worrying about time or money, where would you like to travel to the most?" is a pattern.

There are 4 ways to use SS. I'll talk about 2 of them. In Dave Riker's course (Technical Manual), he goes over in detail how to use all 4. One way is to ASSUME that she will be perceptive a certain state. In assuming, you're not gathering any information about her, you're just setting up the context (via using quotes or challenges) and then BAM, saying a canned pattern. A good example is the Discovery Channel pattern because it sets up the context for you by quoting a TV show. The other, more powerful way, is to UTILIZE. Ask her a seduction question, then PAY ATTENTION to her body language cues and any words that she leans on the most (these are her own personal trance words; hint: usually its an adjective) in her descriptions, then all you have to is mirror back her body language (referred to as "body anchors" by Ross) AND use HER trance words in a pattern that you made on the fly or a pattern that was previously memorized but modified using her trance words.

Another thing that's important is FRACTIONATION, when capturing and leading a woman's imagination she will be awed by you. You will see that doggy dinner bowl look. What you want to do, is STOP and talk about something light/funny for a few minutes because you don't want to overkill and fry her circuits, and have alarms going off inside of her. When I fractionate, I usually say something cocky/funny. Or use one of the "regular" PUA routines. Or, I'll just talk about whatever comes to mind at the moment. I call this an emotional push/pull. You're capturing her imagination one minute, then you're saying something cocky/funny the next minute, then you're talking about something exciting another minute (like a DHV story or something), then you go back and capture her imagination again (this is fractionation; putting her IN and OUT of trance). The more you fractionate, the deeper her trance will be because her mind is getting used to you putting her mind in and out of trance.

I highly recommend both of Dave Riker's course because it is very logically laid out and goes over the fundamentals of SS. His language and conversation course teaches you how to use SS on-the-fly! Which is pretty powerful because it cuts memorizing routines/patterns by a lot.

It's like the Spark Notes of Speed Seduction.

Thanks for the info guys! I recently obtained Dave Riker's Language and Conversation Course, as well as his Technical Manual, both of which I've been listening to/reading lately. I've been reading Ross Jeffries' Speed Seduction BHSC too. I've been using embedded commands lately, and tried them out on this one girl who I f-closed after telling her to "get incredibly turned on" and "become extremely horny" as well as some other things. Granted, I also used a lot of c&f, but I think the embedded commands definitely helped to put her in the state. That part is starting to become more natural to me. Of course, I still have a lot to learn. Does anyone have links to videos of this stuff actually being used for real, besides that interview that Wolf posted? Although I already learned a lot just from those two as well.

That's the weakness of SS (or rather it could a strength since its not so public and commercialized) in that there's VERY few examples of it being done in the field on a video.

Download "Magical Connections" by Kamal and Orion. They use nothing but straight OLD SCHOOL Speed Seduction in their videos. Orion's Speed Seduction skills are top notch. Pay attention to their tonality, gestures, and of course the language. Hmm..what else..

(Make sure you connect the period and the com, I had to put a space in between them b/c I have less than 5 posts and I can't post URLs legally)

youtube. com/watch?v=OkR4q6N6hoU

look at 1:36, Vince Kelvin gives an example of a "self point" gesture plus an embedded command

at 4:16, Vince Kelvin gives an example of capturing and leading her imagination with a QUESTION instead of a canned pattern (plus he does another self point when he says, "DESIRE") at 4:29 he gives an example of using her trance word (it was "complete" just in case you missed it).

youtube. com/watch?v=Xn_oqEOtLYU

Ross Jeffries's interview where he does some field SS. He does a cold read on a girl and gives example of using sliding anchors and tonality.

This is not an example of someone using SS but rather about a poster on mASF who gave me the motivation to want to learn NLP-based game. I can totally understand where this poster is coming from.

fastseduction. com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=6&mn=1202157557454954&refine=subject%3Dspeed%2520seduction%26author%3D%26body%3D%26datefrom%3D%26dateto%3D

learn whatever patterns you want. it all hinges on the sound of your voice. if you have a sexy accent, it will work like nothing else.

but can you imagine Jonathan Ross or Mika Hakkinen or Mr T using patterns to seduce a woman? nope, me either.

in my experience, it has always led to a close, but I am constantly being complimented on my accent by sets, so presumably women lock in on my voice as the focal point of attraction, and this makes it very easy for me to pace them in patterns. and the easier they are to pace, the easier they are to lead.

before you do SS, it is good to read Derren Brown's Tricks of the Mind. it is a very good book on the theoretical and practical side of hypnosis and suggestion by the UK's top stage hypnotist. if you are totally new to the subject, there is a danger that you will learn the patterns in a formulaic way and lose the magic.