Man. Great thread! This is really solid advice from you.

I'm a beginner to all of this and I really want to be as good as you.

From reading your replies, it seems that for beginners without really that much experience in field, it's hard to create the trance and the compliance needed for these patterns to take full effect.

Would combing these patterns with the Cube be a great way for newbies to start off? To do the cube, the target would have to comply to you and we could just sneak patterns in. Is this an effective way of doing things?

Just to see if I understood things properly.

So if I recited the falling in love pattern and created an anchor by touching her wrist or so. (Oh yeah forgot to mention that I'm in school) So, let's say, if fire the anchor every day of the week, will the anchor get stronger? Or would I have to ampliy it?

Looking to hear from you dude!

Ah yes I think I think I know what you mean.

I think a great principle in NLP that will help you here is fractionation, and it's one I use a lot with kino. Essentially, fractionation is taking a person in and out of a state and in doing so you intensify the state.

You can kind of apply this to kino by touching her, then moving away. Then repeating this process, all the while you're escalating the intimacy of the kino. Each time you return to the kino, she will be much more accepting of it.

Getting more specific to attaching feelings to kino - as you mentioned towards the end of your question - I would link your kino to eliciting a state. Then essentially all you are doing is creating an anchor. For how the correct technique on creating anchors, see: free-article-how-to-make-anchors-work-vt33063.html

A key point about kino that most people don't know, but people who know NLP well should know, is that kino CREATES attraction. Many people think that you need to have attraction before you apply kino. Remember that communication is a loop. Just like if you smile, you feel happy, rather than just smiling when you feel happy. In other words, apply as much kino as you can, starting small, ending big.

All the best mate.

No worries mate . Glad that it is helpful.

There's no reason you can't be even better than me if you put the time in the field and conquer your fears.
Good observation. This is one of the largest problems with people new to hypnotic seduction, and they don't even know it themselves.
Yes, great idea. The cube would give you good compliance (unless you mess it up, then it could have the opposite effect). Using existing routines like the cube help enormously in two ways:

1. It builds the compliance necessary to aid hypnotic and subliminal seduction
2. It's easy to bounce off the routine into NLP/hypnotic patterns.
If you did that, yes, the anchor would get stronger. But chances are she would have forgotten it (or her subconscious would have) after the first time, unless you amplify it, as you mentioned. For the right technique to create powerful anchors, see: free-article-how-to-make-anchors-work-vt33063.html

Going back to a more general point; you'll be using a lot of embedded commands or suggestions. For these to work, you need:

1. Compliance
2. A trance like state
3. An undisturbed SPAM.

We have talked about how to achieve compliance. Even simple things such as introducing yourself will build compliance - it's related to concepts like rapport and comfort.

As far as a trance like state goes - well, different people and different disciplines define trance differently. For our purposes, we shall just call it an altered state of awareness, characterised by a more relaxed but alert self, but more importantly, increased suggestibility.

To create a trance like state is easier than it seems. We enter such states automatically every day. For example when you are driving a car, you often enter an 'autopilot' like state. This is why radio advertisements can be really potent to drivers.

If you talk in a hypnotic manner, at a steady, paced rhythm, and make sure that she focuses all her attention on you (i.e. constant eye contact), and if you are both relatively close to each other, you will find after a few minutes of this she will automatically enter a trance like state. The best states are achieved when you yourself feel you are in a trance.

I remember one girl I closed a couple of months ago. We were in her room and the SPAM was not really a very sexual or intimate one so I decided to hypnotise her to get the lay. After about 5-10 minutes of it, we were BOTH so hypnotised! In fact, I was so hypnotised myself, I could barely keep my eyes open, and was lacking physical control of myself. It's a cool sensation. At the end of it I just said "Just like you want to kiss me........right.........now..........like I want to kiss you...." and she just dived into me (that's when you know a command really works).

Some sideline tips to help you achieve this state of trance with the girl is:

1. Do it in an undisturbed SPAM
2. Make sure you are both very close to each other
3. Gaze at a point 1m beyond her head, or in between her eyes (hypnotic eye contact)
4. If possible, look down on her slightly, so she has to look up at you. This will speed up the process at her end
5. Talk slowly, deeply, hypnotically
6. Learn how to use embedded commands, and analogue mark them well
7. You go first; act or be hypnotised yourself and she will follow
8. One command at a time! People who aren't that good at this will just pile on loads of suggestions in the hope that more is better. It isn't. The mind needs time to process each command. And make sure commands don't contradict each other
9. Strong eye contact
10. Attention. Use hand and body postures to make sure her full attention is focused on you. You may combine this with direct commands telling her to stop, forget, and focus her attention on you for a moment
11. Use of Milton model. The Milton model uses language that is artfully vague to allow the person or patient to fill in the details of what you say themselves. This is inductive to a trance like state.

I'll leave you with that for now, otherwise it might be too much too soon.

Above all, practice more than you read!

All the best buddy x

So I have been reading the forum all night and really like this NLP and wanna use it tonight. . . havent slept LOL.

"Nevertheless, it's important to understand that just throwing that in does nothing...one has to stack the language and principles to create a tangible effect"

Gambler - you said this and I want to ask about it:

1.What is and How do you stack the language and principles?

Thank you so much. That was an excellent post. It's so great to have a mentor here that can help us when we're starting out! I really appreciate it so much!

I have a question, I did some searches and people kept saying that the Rose pattern did not live up to its name.



Have you ever used this pattern before? Do you know how to spice it up? It doesn't seem to be any anchoring going on.

Do you know any patterns that would accomplish this goal:

Now, this type of pattern will create a real obsession and will lock in her feelings for you.

To create an obsession over you?

My game revolves around school game, so I will be seeing my target for a long period of time.

Thanks again!

Haha yeah. That's great, the motivation will really help you propel yourself towards results. What is 'results' for you? Is it getting laid with beautiful women, and?

Can you stop imagine a situation where you are having these results, right now?

If you are able to understand how that makes you feel, now, this is what you'll be soon putting your hands on and achieving buddy.

The quote you have above there, it does sound like something I would say though it may not be because I am not Gambler - I'm Gamble . Unfortunate confusion but, this has always been my nick name in life.

In this broad field of NLP and hypnotic skills, we want to create a tangible, powerful impact on the girl.

There are two primary things that will enable you to do this.

The first is the one in my quote that you mentioned. That is, to stack techniques and principles.

You asked how you do this - what I mean is that rather than say, just eliciting a value within someone (e.g. "What do you enjoy doing"; "What is it about doing this that brings you enjoyment" etc), I would add other techniques to build a more powerful effect. So let's take this example and really hit it home. Here's are basic format of this value elicitation:

Rafiel: "What do you enjoy doing?"

HB: "I like travelling."

Rafiel: "What is it about doing this that brings you enjoyment?"

HB: "Dunno, it makes me feel free I guess"

(You would then use this information to make her feel enjoyment. It's like finding her secret buttons that to press to make her feel an emotion. We chose enjoyment).

Now, to at the moment it's a bit bullish, so I could make this better by adding a softening or "weasel" phrase at the beginning. E.g:

Rafiel: "I was wondering, by the way - what do you enjoy doing?"

HB: "I like travelling."

Rafiel: "That's pretty cool. I'm curious, what is it about doing this that brings you enjoyment?"

HB: "Dunno, it makes me feel free I guess"

Now let's make it more potent by adding visualisations:

Rafiel: "I was wondering, by the way - what do you enjoy doing?"

HB: "I like travelling."

Rafiel: "That's pretty cool. I'm curious, what is it about doing this that brings you enjoyment?"

HB: "Dunno, it makes me feel free I guess"

Rafiel: "And can you imagine a situation where you are travelling - where would you go?"

So we've used her sight sense, why not stack it with some physical feelings? And, in addition, lets use her trance word which was being "free":

Rafiel: "I was wondering, by the way - what do you enjoy doing?"

HB: "I like travelling."

Rafiel: "That's pretty cool. I'm curious, what is it about doing this that brings you enjoyment?"

HB: "Dunno, it makes me feel free I guess"

Rafiel: "And can you imagine a situation where you are travelling - where would you go?"

HB: "Ooo somewhere warm and sunny...maybe like somewhere in Africa or something..."

Rafiel: "I love Africa. If you were in Africa, where it's warm and sunny...and you felt really free...how would that make you feel in general?

Now, let's spruce up that last bit with a tense shift, so we'll make it in the present tense to make the effect more powerful:

Rafiel: "I was wondering, by the way - what do you enjoy doing?"

HB: "I like travelling."

Rafiel: "That's pretty cool. I'm curious, what is it about doing this that brings you enjoyment?"

HB: "Dunno, it makes me feel free I guess"

Rafiel: "And can you imagine a situation where you are travelling - where would you go?"

HB: "Ooo somewhere warm and sunny...maybe like somewhere in Africa or something..."

Rafiel: "I love Africa. If you're in Africa, where it's warm and sunny...and you feel really free...how does that feel in general?

HB: "Wow um...yeah just...really safe and happy..."


--

You see how I am adding and stacking techniques and principles? You can really begin to hear and understand how much of a solid impact you can have on girls when you start thinking about how to use this in your game.

The second thing I was going to say, is rather than 'what' you say, 'how' you say everything. I can give someone a word for word script for hypnosis, but if they don't know how to say it, the subject won't be hypnotised. In fact he'll probably think you're a bit crazy!

But, if you work on your speech - and more importantly, your speech when nervous or under pressure (i.e. talking to a really hot girl on a cold approach), then you will find that your results will SOAR. And of course there's a lot of non-verbal stuff going on there too.

I want to add one final thing, which is so so important and will make you so much more effective. And that is, rather than spewing out a load of lines AT her, it's so much more effective to have an interaction WITH her. Get regular responses, check for understanding, use questioning and make sure if you tell her or suggest her to do something, such as a visualisation, she actually does it and doesn't just nod her head! There are clever ways to do this, such as you'll notice in my example above, copied here:

Rafiel: "And can you imagine a situation where you are travelling - where would you go?

If I just said "Can you imagine a situation where you are travelling", then she might just nod and say yes, rather than actually imagining it (despite the embedded command - "IMAGINE A SITUATION WHERE YOU ARE TRAVELLING").

By asking "where would you go", she actually has to go inside herself and in order to understand and answer the question, she has to imagine (or feel) it. It's a trick that good practitioners of NLP use all the time. You will almost definitely see her eyes move upwards and perhaps her body posture change to confirm this.

In summary:

1. Stack techniques and principles
2. It's not what you say, but how you say it
3. Communication is a two-way process.

All the best x

Eddy - you're most welcome. I'll reply to your question later today or tomorrow x

Glad you appreciate it mate. I think once you can actually understand how what I say translates into results for you, you may appreciate it even more . Hopefully.

I remember using what I believe you are calling the 'Rose pattern' during my early days. It is in one of the SS handbooks right? Designed to create obsession, where you get her to imagine a rose and induce submodality shifts etc.

The pattern is very effective if it's used right, but I wouldn't be so worried about all the disclaimers attached to it because so few people will be able to use it right that it doesn't matter. As always, it's more how you say it, rather than what you say.

You ask for ways to spice it up - there are a number of ways you can go. I don't think anchors will particularly make this more powerful. The only reason I'd add an anchor here is if you want to quickly bring her back into that state at a later date.

I would just really focus on intensifying the experience for her and getting your delivery of the pattern top notch and clean. An artist has to learn to use a paintbrush before he can paint. If you deliver the pattern well, you will notice very powerful results. But this takes a lot of practice. To begin with, it won't seem to have much effect on girls unless you have a knack for it .

In terms of patterns that create an obsession - yes, there are a number of well known patterns. Some are termed 'forbidden', such as October Man created by In10SE. I don't think I am allowed to go into these because this website/moderators have deemed it immoral (and rightly so I think).

However, breaking it down, many of these patterns use fairly advanced principles such as symbol fractionation to achieve their goal.

The thing many of them have in common is that they will create a state in the girl's mind/body (they're interconnected), and then they will link that state to you.

If you're going for long-term I would say the link is necessary. If you're looking for a quick lay I think pumping buying temperature is enough.

I can't write out whole patterns here as it would take up too much time, though if you could be more specific I'd be happy to answer .

At the end of the day I wouldn't say there's much point in looking into this beyond a need to satiate interest, until someone has got the basics down. This is because if they haven't got the basics down, the 'advanced patterns', forbidden or not, will have no effect and will probably make you look very silly (picture trying to move red balls of energy through a girl's body). Moreover, the basics, such as value elicitation etc, are very powerful and you might find there is no need for much more.

This is also probably why you mentioned people say the Rose pattern does not live up to its name - you cannot just spew out a load of memorised words - it will not work. A lot of patterns are fine and many of them will all work quite well. In fact, I haven't really read any particularly bad patterns from the SS camp. They'll all work fine but you have to make it work and that comes through practice and humiliation in the field (if you're framing it as humiliation ).

All the best x

This is simply fantastic Rafiel. I started reading NLP due to personal desire, but you, an NLP guru per say, incorporating it into the game fascinates me. Eliciting old emotions with an ex is something I'm struggling with right now. Well, not really struggling, but it's more of an internal struggle, i'm trying to bring a relationship back, especially because I know she has feelings for me.

If you could post any personal experiences or easy points that would set positive anchors between us I would appreciate it a million. I'm still trying to discover them myself!

I would love to speak with you one day!
-C

_________________
Please check out my "Importance of Nutrition" thread in the Health & Fitness section!

Ello mate, good to hear from ya. I refrain from using terms like 'guru' and 'expert', but yes, you can get ridiculous results in the field once you've mastered this stuff. It's a shame its reach is not so far in clubs and stuff (too much noise etc).

Eliciting old emotions in your ex. Right.

First, I would be careful when roaming into ex-girlfriend territory. It's messy stuff.

But, on with the show:

In terms of using NLP, I would focus on eliciting values, as you said. Old emotions are good, but also standard attraction routines. For the moment I would leave out anchors if you have not used them that much before. You could, however, use anchors set up from your past relationship that bring back positive thoughts.

For instance with one of my ex girl friends i used to play with her hair a lot. So if I were to play with her hair when we meet up again, it would revert her to that submissive, attracted state (to an extent).

In general, I would remmeber two key points that should define how you pick her up:

1. Change her mood, not her mind
2. Seduction is state-dependent; get her wet in the short term, and she will do anything.

So you must not attempt to reason with her - which is a temptation in your situation. You should focus instead on feelings, and NLP can help you do this, particularly with eliciting values and states after you gain rapport by slowly matching her verbal and body patterns.

If you then want to convert to a long-term relationship once again, you can do this after you have seduced her in the short-term. This means she will be in an attracted state and logically, having just been seduced by you, she will be more rationally inclined to agree to a longer-term relationship as well.

Most of all, as you rightly said yourself, the struggle is more internal here. So it is important to set your inner game straight, and not to become needy. Of course she still has feelings for you, though this does not necessarily mean she wants a relationship or romantic association with you.

In terms of personal experiences - yes I've had quite a few. I've never really wanted to rekindle an old flame that much though as I've never really been 'dumped', as it were. I would follow the points above. Also, look up 'eliciting values', there should be some good info on it on the net.

Slow and seductive baby.

And, do visit me if you're ever around London.

All the best.

Hi Rafiel,

Wow! This is an awesome thread. I’m half way of reading it but I wish to ask you a question.

Well, first, I’m a woman (I think we already met at the live chat, isn’t it?) anyway, I’m a FPUA and I’m doing research in techniques to help the girls. So, my question is, Do you think NLP can be used to induce a man to have a LTR? I’m planning to field test this, wouldn’t it be interesting?

Also I’m publishing some articles at my blog http://attractionandlove.wordpress.com from other FPUAS, PUAS and my own experience, so I was wondering if I can post some of your ideas there (the ones relevant to female pickup artistry of course)?

A

Hey Angelina,

Sorry for the late reply, been quite busy lately.
Broadly, yes, I would say so. I'd have to know the situation and how you mean converting to an LTR etc, but probably wouldn't be easy (to state a truism, I suppose) depending on your ability.

I think NLP has some very powerful possibilities for a woman seducing a guy in the first instance - it would not be particularly difficult to use NLP to make a man's dick hard just by talking to him - even if the woman is not that good looking.

I think it would be necessary to target your NLP/hypnosis techniques at the long-term, too, if you were to do this. There is definitely a difference in the way girls act during short-term seduction and long-term seduction, and I think (though I am not an expert with guys) it is the same with guys. For instance, as you probably know, you can get a guy horny in the short term and he will make love to you. But that is a far cry from having a long-term relationship with you. Sometimes I make my friends get a boner by talking to them. It's funny, but also pretty unnerving.

At the heart of such an NLP persuasion, it would probably involve eliciting the guy's criteria or values for a long-term relationship. Every guy at some stage has probably experienced one-itis, or 'limerance' as they say in psychology. When he experiences that, he thinks of the girl often even though she could be miles away. What does he feel when he does this? How does he imagine it? How does he feel about those feelings? Simply exploring this gold mine of a trapped, obsessed male mind can unlock many powerful tools for long-term success...if you want him to be trapped and obsessed that is...
Oh yeah, loads of fun.
Cool. I took a brief look at the blog. I didn't expect this, but some of the ideas are actually really good, such as trying to get a man to change. You should tell that to my my last exclusive ex girl friend!
Preliminarily - yes. It depends exactly what you'd like from me as I don't always have that much time. But yeah, I'd be happy to help out where needed. It also depends on what the outcome is. I know two female PUAs in my area - one of them is in it mainly for the money & benefits, the other is looking to convert hot guys to an LTR. When they ask for advice from me, it is usually quite different.

Let me know if this helps, or if you have any further questions.

All the best and good luck on your journey .

Why the Octoberman sequence creates stalker or obsessive girls?

How it works that part and why have the effect of create a stalker?

Finally, In10se says that you have to be very carefull using this stuff. But how can you use it well?. All I see is really dangerous.

Sorry, Im a newbie in this stuff.

Thanks in advance.

Hello mate. According to forum rules I don't think I'm supposed to talk about October Man here because it involves fractionating between positive and negative states of mind which, at least as a means to an end, allows your counterpart to experience negative emotions. The owners of this forum have judged that unethical.

Answering what I can, however, the part that you quoted is not essential/intrinsic to October Man. I.e. you can do October Man or similar patterns without it. Just doing that alone in isolation will probably have no effect on a girl. She might give you a strange look. That is supposed to be a part of a wider sequence/system. You have taken it out of context there.

The key to using this stuff well is to learn how to get compliance from a girl. You cannot deliver such difficult patterns and sequences without gaining compliance from a girl, otherwise she will just think you're strange or brush you off when you start talking about strange symbols and energy.

I would focus on learning frame control and being able to dominate and control the attention of groups of people and individuals first. Sorry if it sounds long-winded, but if you want to really manipulate people using this stuff, that's the way forward!

It is dangerous, but the vast majority of people won't be able to get to the level where it becomes dangerous for a myriad reasons, so I don't worry much .

All the best on your adventures! x

Thanks for the excellent info. A lot of time and effort clearly went into this thread. I'm a complete newb to PU but one who's been practicing NLP for personal development for some time. I get the techniques, I know how they work and why they work however using them to influence others is a somewhat foreign experience to me. After reading this and a couple of other threads I started mixing some techniques - weasel phrases, embedded commands, confusion tactics etc. - into conversations and have had mixed results. Right away I could see that quality openers and establishing and keeping the right frame is critical to having any sort of success and that for that, the answer may lie outside of NLP proper.

Which brings me to my question - would you describe to us any favorite techniques you use to open and create a dominant frame? I ask this knowing that it's not technically an NLP question however I suspect your perspective as an expert NLP practitioner may be more relevant than that of some other PUA's (even some of the highly accomplished ones.) For instance, I just can't reconcile some of Mystery and Style's opinion openers, false time constraints and whatnot with what I'm trying to accomplish with NLP - it just doesn't feel congruent. On the other hand, some of what I've read from so called "natural" PUA's seem entirely congruent. Finally, would you say that that's an accurate observation about NLP for PU in general or is this just my personal experience?