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Sounds good man. I guess there's no better reason to study Bandler. Can you recall which tapes he does the salivating thing in?
I'll have to poke around. I have a really huge archive of material and only recently started attaching notes/comments to videos (winamp "chapterlist" classic pro module allows typed bookmark/comment thingys)
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If Dilts works with your method then go for it. I just find that what he could say in an elegant sentence, he'll say it in a confusing paragraph. There's no problem with that, depending where you're coming from, it's just that he tries to give everything some pretentious pseudo-scientific name.
I have got his book on modeling though. I haven't gotten much use out of it yet but it seems to be very valuable.
I ignore a lot of that naming type stuff for me. Even for me, there's lots of stuff that's far too technical and wastes more time than necessary. I burn up a lot of highlighters by just highlighting useful bits so the second time a review a book I don't get bogged down in useless stuff.
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I get your method of studying. Mine is similar but I don't cross learning material as often. I'll stick with one thing (I spent a year or two crossing over all sorts of stuff but never applied it, it was only when I studied Igor Ledochowski, and ACTUALLY studied his DVD's I got decent VERY fast). My method is to not let one good idea pass me without me applying it in the real world.
It's very easy to become good at hypnosis fast, getting a broad idea of the processes. Once that's in place I started learning specific nuances, or techniques within that concept.
Yeah, Igor is very accessible, and the method to not let one idea pass is great as well. There are quite a few things I just skipped over the first time I went over Covert Hypnosis and when I actually applied them the second time I was like "whoah!" so often that I made a pact with myself to try everything at least a couple of times. One of his best qualities is that virtually everything he teaches is important and not just getting anal retentive about small things that really don't matter much anyway.
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Most of my learning stopped coming from those anymore, I've noticed that when you're in the right place you can get away with so much. Things that I wouldn't have a technique to deal with can be turned around when stuff just flows out.
This is true especially with seduction. I don't really have any time for products anymore 'cause it can actually limit you. I have to say, I didn't do anything the first year or two I knew about this community. Then, after some flash of motivation I got pretty good (if I may say so myself) pretty quickly. Then I stopped caring about other guru's or products (not entirely true, some are still pretty good) and I started doing almost all my learning in-field. It's crazy how much better you learn without someone else's ideas floating around.
I see most of the seduction products as "training wheels" material now and as you mentioned they can AND WILL limit you. I see it like learning chess or anything else. At first you watch other people's games to get an idea of what's going on and try that stuff but at some point you have to think for yourself or you'll never be a chess master.
I actually don't pick up much, instead I just create (& steer) positive energy around me, comfortable where I am, and women are very sensitive to that and move towards good feelings. Sometimes I'll walk up to a woman and do a PI, but that's more to make sure I'm not staying (protecting myself) in my safe-zone and also to be more dynamic.
This completely violates what most people see as pick-up but I see it as having gone beyond mastery and into working on finesse and style with total confidence and I get lots of positive feedback from women that gets repeated enough that I'm sure it's working.....like I more frequently get comments from women that I act like I own the place I'm at.
As far as the "getting away with anything", as long as the women feel that you have an internal "i'm a rock star" level status, you can do anything that won't have a negative impact on how people see her or will say about her, and respect her right to say NO to anything she has a right or responsibility to control.
For instance, guys will cringe and
other women will biatch a bit when I on occasion say to a girl who approaches (before any other talk) "wow, it'd be great to make love with you tonight" and then go back to talking with whoever I was talking to. Guys will tell me often "i don't understand why you can say things like that, I'd get slapped if I ever said the things you do" and I tell them that they're being silly, what did I do that was so horribly wrong? What, the girl is going to get angry, grab a microphone from a DJ and say "that guy right there is such an asshole, who does he think he is being straightforward and comfortable with himself, how dare he be the kind of man who goes for what he wants and doesn't apologize for it, what a total loser!"?
Of course not. I didn't insult her and I wasn't being disgusting, and I didn't impact her socially in a negative way. I just speak my mind and let the chips fall where they may....and they usually fall where the girl is extremely interested in getting to know me.
Many seduction products are great, but I don't need them anymore excepting stuff about "inner game"/growth and communicating better with women to get them extremely hot and bothered with more finesse and cleverness. In a few months time, I won't even need those anymore excepting for some causal review from time to time to check my progress.
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To give an example of what I mean, here's my post from another forum:
Once you're comfortable with a relaxed, calm eye-contact you can lay off it a little. The fact that you're comfortable with it, and you're not avoiding it out of insecurity shows through.
It's the same for most "techniques". Nowadays I rarely kino, don't make eye-contact as much and I tend to mumble at times. I think it works because of my energy, the place I'm coming from. It's some next level shit.
That's very true. I don't really kino....it's great at first to get comfortable with touching women you don't know but once that's accomplished, you only need to touch when really necessary and it's actually better when a woman is working to get you to touch her. Any woman I'm interested in I'll touch once or twice within the first minute, but after that it's not a big deal and I don't much.....I already sent the clear message "i'm comfortable with touching women, even women I do not know". This isn't something I do consciously any more, it's just habit and women pick up on that......touching women I'm interested in is obviously something I'm used to and happens automatically.
CHAT