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One Of the Guys
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Author:  Paisley [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  One Of the Guys
So, The reason I'm here is because I'm a tomboy. Or I Was when I was growing up. As I've gotten older I've worked towards giving off a more feminine vibe, but my hobbies are guy things and I have a ton of guy friends.

This is.... somewhat problematic, because despite some admitting to having huge crushes on me of course these are the ones that I don't feel attracted to, and they admit this after they are in a relationship as a sorta "I did like you and now I have this girlfriend, look!". It seems my comfort around guys somehow makes me unapproachable.

Now my roomate is one of the most gorgeous gals on campus, and like a bad sitcom I'm her "stays in to watch the hockey game" roomate. She insists that my problems are that -Im so pretty but I dont cake make-up on my face, thus am not girly enough, and -I dont drink, at all. and apparently the only way to show you're available is to be sloppy drunk

Being sloppy drunk and caked in make-up = not me, but my roomate has no other advice. My guy friends for the most part become deers in headlights, because giving me dating advice acknowledges my vag, and I guess kills the bromance.

TL:DR. I'm an adorable tom boy. I need help.
Author:  Plethora [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:00 am ]
Post subject: 
1. My comfort with guys makes me unapproachable
2. I'm not pretty enough because I don't cake makeup on my face
3. I need to be drunk for men to show interest in me
...and possibly,
4. Only men I am not attracted to are attracted to me

All limiting beliefs that by internalizing as you have, will manifest themselves into reality. Perception is projection. You perceive yourself to be an outcast, unapproachable, and undesirable. By doing this you are projecting this person onto the world and making these become real. Spend some time changing your internal beliefs, not only to the opposite of 1-4, but presupposing the opposite of 1-4.
For example: 4. I am comfortable with attractive men desiring me

You don't need to drink to have a good time, but if you believe you do then you are absolutely right. You don't need a load of makeup to appear attractive. But again, perception is projection.

Your body and mind will want to keep you in this comfort zone that you have built for yourself. Your subconscious is in effect trying to sabotage any success with men of interest because it is trying to protect you. The only way out is to show courage and actively change your outlook, and maintain the change through vigor and determination. At this point your mind will accept the new you and aid you in any way conducive to your new reality.

It sounds esoteric, but give it a whirl.
Author:  Paisley [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
That is actually great advice, thanks. I have alot of people in my life telling me my problem is the way I am. Particularly my mother, who has started clipping skirts and pink tops out of magazines and giving them to me and some of my better friends telling me that my non-feminine non-submissive demeanor isnt attractive, such as my roomate.

I suppose I've just been constantly internalizing it. Because even when I read PUA stuff I think "This will make me look even more confident, and therefore masculine, and I will have more problems."

I have to work on dropping those insecurities, Having someone point them out to me is helpful.
Author:  Cinnamon Spice [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hey Paisley, I know exactly where you're coming from.

Trust me you are better off than I was. I found a guy I kinda liked and spent three years engaged to him. Do not settle because you think no one else will find you attractive.

You are adorable and you just need to realize how much boys really do want you. It's hard but once you realize it, a whole world opens up to you.

So I have some questions. Feel free to pop onto chat too, I'll be on for a bit.

How old are you?
What are your 'manly' hobbies?
Are you planning to use PUA tactics to get men (It works)?
Do you want one LTR boyfriend, or to date around a bit?
Have you read an PU books?

Happy to see another girl and I hope you stick around.

Cinnamon
Author:  Paisley [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks, I totally plan to stick around. I dont have alot of people who understand my personality, so its nice to have people who are willing to take the time to understand me and what I should do, and not just throw random advice at me.

as for your questions:

-I'm 20.

- My main boyish hobby is by far video games. I want to work in the industry so I know a lot about them. Tech and computers in general are part of my life in a big way. I spent half my child hood building computers in my basement with my dad.

Besides that, hockey, the TV I like: discovery (mythbusters all the time) stuff and those awful spike tv/G4 shows like ninja warrior.

I just kinda run with my guy friends. romp around with them, wrestle them, talk shit with them. until wrestling degrades into a tickle fight so they can win cheaply, I rarely feel like Im not one of the guys.

-I'd like to use PUA tactics to open up my social and romantic options, yeah.

-I want a LTR somewhere down the road, but I think right now I want to date

-No not yet. I've mostly read alot about them, and I have a friend that's into it and wont talk a lot about it. so I became interested.
Author:  Cinnamon Spice [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Alright cool.

So if you haven't read anything yet I would highly advise looking up Juggler method. He works mostly on the art of conversation and I find it can be molded to female game very easily.

Also, mythbusters rocks!

I think your main problem is indeed the self-limiting beliefs and your self-fulfilling prophecies. You just need to see yourself as attractive. It took me about a month.

Start approaching and opening, talk to strangers. Then come here and ask how to do things better.

Also like I said, check out the chat, most of us are friendly and willing to help. In fact, log in right now. I'm on there. ^__^

Cinnamon
Author:  Chief [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: One Of the Guys
Quote:
So, The reason I'm here is because I'm a tomboy. Or I Was when I was growing up. As I've gotten older I've worked towards giving off a more feminine vibe, but my hobbies are guy things and I have a ton of guy friends.

This is.... somewhat problematic, because despite some admitting to having huge crushes on me of course these are the ones that I don't feel attracted to, and they admit this after they are in a relationship as a sorta "I did like you and now I have this girlfriend, look!". It seems my comfort around guys somehow makes me unapproachable.

Now my roomate is one of the most gorgeous gals on campus, and like a bad sitcom I'm her "stays in to watch the hockey game" roomate. She insists that my problems are that -Im so pretty but I dont cake make-up on my face, thus am not girly enough, and -I dont drink, at all. and apparently the only way to show you're available is to be sloppy drunk

Being sloppy drunk and caked in make-up = not me, but my roomate has no other advice. My guy friends for the most part become deers in headlights, because giving me dating advice acknowledges my vag, and I guess kills the bromance.

TL:DR. I'm an adorable tom boy. I need help.
For the longest time I thought TL:DR meant Tyler Durden haha. Thank you, Google.

1. tits or gtfo
2. jk about #1
3. No woman should cake herself with makeup. Makeup should be used to ACCENTUATE natural beauty, not to hide perceived flaws. It's just like a PUA's outer game. Accentuate, not hide.
4. Drink to have fun. Don't drink to make yourself vulnerable to shit.

That's my 2 cents. If you want better help, try asking specific questions or tell us what your goals are.
Author:  Paisley [ Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
I totally agree on the make up thing, and I do wear a bit, I just don't wear fake eyelashes or tons of super dark mascara. I like to look natural and not like I rolled around in paint.

Writing down my goals will help me understand what I want, so forgive me if this isnt super clear right off the bat, but analyze the heck out of them if you want

Goals

-Get away from my core group of guy friends for a little bit. Im surrounded by guys who are attached to GFs, They are a safe zone for me.

-Explore my options off campus. I'm at a tiny school that is, 60% chicks and my 40% of dudes is 20% gay. Its a tiny pool and I already hang around alot of strait guys. I'm not in an extremely safe city though and I'm not super interested in clubs.

-Be better at showing interest in the guys I do like at school. There are a few. The campus parties are kinda lame and Im usually the only girl there who isn't sloppy drunk. I need to be better at being at ease. I smile and make small talk but I don't seem to have a ton of luck, I still mostly talk to people I kinda know already.

I'd like to have a better time flirting when I'm in class and setting up hangout situations that make me more comfortable. Id rather be in a small group.
Author:  Chief [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
-Be better at showing interest in the guys I do like at school. There are a few. The campus parties are kinda lame and Im usually the only girl there who isn't sloppy drunk. I need to be better at being at ease. I smile and make small talk but I don't seem to have a ton of luck, I still mostly talk to people I kinda know already.

I'd like to have a better time flirting when I'm in class and setting up hangout situations that make me more comfortable. Id rather be in a small group.
There's where we can probably help you out the most. Sorry for not checking back on this thread in a while; they usually get lost in the sea of the Newbie Questions section.

I may not be able to empathize with your situation, but I sure can sympathize. I would hate to be a chick who didn't like to drink and party it up. If I wanted sex I'd have to doll myself up and just WAIT around doing nothing except pretend to do something like look around for a book in a bookstore while growing more and more frustrated at the fact that no one was approaching me at that very moment.

If I were you I'd take advantage of communicating with your eyes. Having great EC (eye contact) with a sense of wistful longing in your eyes can be very sexy.

I think the main thing you want to do is to show as much interest in a guy as possible without coming off as a slut. Eh, but what do I know? I give advice to GUYS. :wink:

Bonita needs to get her ass on this thread.
Author:  RTTastic [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Tomboys of the world unite! I don't know if you would consider me a tomboy NOW, but I certainly was growing up. I, like you, have a lot of guy friends, who treat me as either "one of the guys" or as a "sister" type. I'm ok with that.

I, too, don't wear over excessive makeup. I LOVE my colorful makeup, but forget fake eyelashes, mascara, heavy foundation or blush.

One thing I have found in meeting men is that you have to go to the right places. I really never expect to meet anyone at dance clubs where frat boys frequent. I'm not thier type. When I go out to a rock show, i'm much more likely to find people who are interested in me and who I am interested in as well.

I don't drink often, and when/if I do, I usually have 1 or 2 drinks. So I hear ya there too.

As was said prior, though it's all about inner confidence. Many men LIKE the girls who think like men...enjoy the same hobbies...aren't going to get mad when they want to play video games on a saturday night, but join in!

You sound like you rock, know it...own it.

And as Cinnamon said, more girls! Sweet!
Author:  C-Diesel [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well...From personal experience, some of the guys may be a little intimidated by you in the sense that they don't want to mess up the social dynamics of the group they have! It may not be intimidation as much as it is a kind of respect in the realization that their friends are your friends as well, and we all know that a realtionship, more often than not, messes up friendships in this situation...I don't know how much that helps out...

I also 100% agree with Chief! He couldn't have said it more accurately!

-Crain Diesel
Author:  kasabi [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
The only way out is to show courage and actively change your outlook, and maintain the change through vigor and determination. At this point your mind will accept the new you and aid you in any way conducive to your new reality.
When's the last time you drooled over a fat hb2 with a positive outlook? We hear a lot about "inner this and that" around here because some guys have their heads so deep in their asses that they can't even open their mouthes to speak when around other people. Positive self image is important for sure but the OP clearly communicates well enough. She's not apologizing to anybody for being a tomboy. She's able to set goals for herself . . . and she doesn't blame anybody for her situation.

Paisley, you're more mature and have a more positive outlook than 90% of the posters here. If you ask advice from some guy who went to mystery camp, that's what you'll get. If you ask advice from a plumber, he'll tell you to keep your toilet clean. If you ask your "sisters" on this forum, they'll go, "Ooh . . . you're adorable." Of course you're adorable. They're not thinking about fucking you.

Ask the guys here. . . Hey guys, do you or do you not pop boner for tomboys who play video games over weekend while wearing comfy clothes? I'll answer honestly: NO. If there's an honest "yes" here, go ahead and PM him because that's about as unusual as guys who chase 500lb ladies.

You're not a little girl any more. If you want an A in class, you'll put in some effort. When you graduate and you're going in for an interview, you will look and dress you're part on top of figuring out your professional position. Look, if guys are willing to put nail polish on to improve their chances, you can certainly take some small steps to improve yours right? I'm all about fighting through some short term discomfort for realization of goals later on. . . and this might seem "uncomfortable" now but you say you want dates:

1. Make over: Do it. Get yourself a new look. Don't gradually change one thing at a time. Take some advice from girls who wear make up. Experiment and don't worry; you can wash up right away if you don't like it. You don't need a wedding cake on your face but there is nothing wrong with looking sexy. Forget adorable. My buddy's poodle is adorable. Same goes for the way you dress. Your mother probably knows more than you give her credit for . . .

Tell the ones that "don't like the new you" or whatever to get a life. You'll find many people in life who will keep you in "THEIR" comfort zone for their own needs. The ones who love you will always love you and support you through life improvements.

2. You're right about your guy friends but it's worse than you think. They treat you like a guy but also unknowingly advertise to others that you're one of the guys. This is un-sexy. See them less but when you do see them, have an absolute ball. (By the way, this is the general idea when seeing your regular dates as well. Married couples don't grope each other every moment because they see each other ALL THE TIME. Thus their sexual tension is constantly being released. As a young single girl who wants to generate sexual feelings, you want to tighten that faucet up tight to load up the tension . . . then you want to release it all at once. Ex. They don't see you for one week but when they do, you want all of them to think, "Holy shit, I didn't realize how sexy she was . . ")

3. Sloppy drunk does not = sloppy drunk. Sloppy drunk in school = approachable. So no, you don't need to be sloppy drunk AT ALL but you have to figure out a way to make it feel more "safe" to approach you. A lot of it is physical . . . but if you see one you like walk by, it's cool to just go, "Hey, what time is it? . . . shoot, my friends told me they'd meet me at . . ". and just keep going, going, going . . .

4. It's OK to let people know that you're a sexual being. You wrote pretty passionately about your love for sports and video games. Get together with the gals and talk about guys and sex. Don't position yourself as the "dateless adorable one". Get sexy. Get on an even plane quick. Give each other compliments . . . This energy will spread . . .
Author:  Plethora [ Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Quote:
The only way out is to show courage and actively change your outlook, and maintain the change through vigor and determination. At this point your mind will accept the new you and aid you in any way conducive to your new reality.
When's the last time you drooled over a fat hb2 with a positive outlook? We hear a lot about "inner this and that" around here because some guys have their heads so deep in their asses that they can't even open their mouthes to speak when around other people. Positive self image is important for sure but the OP clearly communicates well enough. She's not apologizing to anybody for being a tomboy. She's able to set goals for herself . . . and she doesn't blame anybody for her situation.

Paisley, you're more mature and have a more positive outlook than 90% of the posters here. If you ask advice from some guy who went to mystery camp, that's what you'll get. If you ask advice from a plumber, he'll tell you to keep your toilet clean. If you ask your "sisters" on this forum, they'll go, "Ooh . . . you're adorable." Of course you're adorable. They're not thinking about fucking you.

Ask the guys here. . . Hey guys, do you or do you not pop boner for tomboys who play video games over weekend while wearing comfy clothes? I'll answer honestly: NO. If there's an honest "yes" here, go ahead and PM him because that's about as unusual as guys who chase 500lb ladies.
You misunderstand me. Looks are very, very important, especially for women. Things like having a tight body, skin care, makeup, hair done well, clothes, accessories, etc... These are all things that you can change and all things that will make you appear much more attractive. The problem is that without self respect or positive beliefs, then a person will not do these things to make themselves presentable to the world. Or the person will not feel congruent as they do not recognize them self as a sexual human being. I strongly believe the fastest way to change your outward appearance to the world is to first change your internal belief structure and opinion of yourself to a much more positive place. Then go out and get a makeover (physical and lifestyle)...
Author:  kasabi [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
You misunderstand me. Looks are very, very important, especially for women. Things like having a tight body, skin care, makeup, hair done well, clothes, accessories, etc... These are all things that you can change and all things that will make you appear much more attractive. The problem is that without self respect or positive beliefs, then a person will not do these things to make themselves presentable to the world. Or the person will not feel congruent as they do not recognize them self as a sexual human being. I strongly believe the fastest way to change your outward appearance to the world is to first change your internal belief structure and opinion of yourself to a much more positive place. Then go out and get a makeover (physical and lifestyle)...
I understood you 100% and it's good advice for all. However, there are just two things here. First off, I don't believe at all Paisley has a negative outlook. Secondly, what is your technique to "change your internal belief structure"? You haven't mentioned any methods at all.

Believe! Believe! Ever tell a depressed guy, "Don't be depressed! You're a cool guy! Really you are!" Or have you ever been pissed off and somebody goes, "Be happy! Be happy! You can do it happy man!" I'd love to hear your techniques. What are they?

Physical changes on the other hand are simple, tangible, real life things. You can touch make up, feel it, smell it. You can FORCE yourself to do it. What happens? Well, you look in the mirror and you smile. You see changes in the way people look at you and treat you and you smile. You smile, smile, smile . . . and you feel better already. She follows the physical steps that I outlined(even if she doesn't fee like it because it's not habitual for her yet) then a guy looks over and does one of those, "I just saw an angel" look and again, she smiles.

I don't think many here will disagree with you with your beliefs that self love(this is basically what it is) is important. What I'm suggesting is a physical, tangible, executable strategy that is easy to understand that will eventually lead to both a stronger outer and INNTER SELF. She's demonstrated through her writing that she is fully capable of doing this.

It's only when a person is incapable of comfortably interacting with others in life that I think it's necessary to toss the guy into some zen buddhist temple to get whacked few times a day while he cooks rice for them.
Author:  Plethora [ Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I understood you 100% and it's good advice for all. However, there are just two things here. First off, I don't believe at all Paisley has a negative outlook. Secondly, what is your technique to "change your internal belief structure"? You haven't mentioned any methods at all.

Believe! Believe! Ever tell a depressed guy, "Don't be depressed! You're a cool guy! Really you are!" Or have you ever been pissed off and somebody goes, "Be happy! Be happy! You can do it happy man!" I'd love to hear your techniques. What are they?

My background is in psychology and NLP. It is to my understanding that in one's personal hierarchy of their life, things like behaviors and environmental circumstance are at the very bottom. To change these things specifically does not produce long term positive effects. However, by changing certain aspects in the higher parts of the hierarchy, such as beliefs and identity, then this can easily filter down to create long term positive change in the lower, more tangible areas. Yes, it is possible that by changing one's outward appearance to the world, it may cause a slight identity change and (in this case) she may become the person she wished she could be. I, and the many who studied and developed this psychological field, feel that it is quicker, easier, and more effective to first change the belief structure. I believe Paisley does have a negative outlook and self limiting beliefs. To me, it is quite obvious through her initial post that she has negative and constraining insecurities that are holding her back from being her best self.

Working at higher levels of my own psychological hierarchy has produced drastic tangible effects for me. I don't list any methods or techniques specifically because I feel it is important that one looks for change in themselves, and is willing to sacrifice the time and energy into achieving it. It's easy to tell someone to conform to the norm and to act like those who they envy. It is an entirely different story to get someone to a comfort level where they actively pursue that and maintain their desired level. As far as I'm concerned, getting rid of negative and self-limiting beliefs has to be the initial focus when searching for excellence.

The physical world is what manifests itself into reality and is what we all see and judge in ourselves and each other. This, however, is a world that is passed through many filters and ideologies before it becomes real. By changing these filters, one can change how these projections enter reality. It can be made as simple as having self respect and 'self love' by telling yourself that you like yourself in the mirror every day, or by immediately ceasing all negative self talk. I really recommend that everyone gets in touch with their self conscious and perhaps delve into some NLP/psychology to better understand and manipulate their minds to be as effective as possible.
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