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| The first minute is like being sodomized with a rake https://pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=193920 |
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| Author: | SonarPulse [ Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | The first minute is like being sodomized with a rake |
Most people I'm around a lot, really like me. But it takes time. When I first meet people, I still seem to come off flat. If I were to use PUA lingo, I'm bad at "opening" and "hooking". Everyone thinks I'm boring and uptight when they first meet me. And it is true that I'm low energy. I've experimented with being really high energy, and people literally just think I'm weird and do not want to deal with me. I don't seem to be good at faking extroversion. I have this same problem, regardless of how I dress(I've done business to rocker to hip-hop). I've been reading stuff about that phase(this is actually how I found out about "PUA"). But most of the advice is either about giving me an exact phrase to say, or else they say "Just say whatever". Well, I've already tried the second one, and I'm about %99 sure the problem is not my lack of weird, socially awkward, and inappropriate questions when I first meet someone. I really need some advice on this. Because once I can talk to someone one-on-one for even 2-3 minutes, they usually like me. Or if I can have them in a good mood within the first minute or less. My real problem is getting things started. When I get off to a bad start, it just snowballs and no matter how long I stick around, things just never improve. I'm pretty good socially, with this one exception. It seems like most of this stuff is written for people who have a lot of other problems, but not mine. I don't have social anxiety. I have good conversational skills, and I'm a very interactive listener. Really, my one main problem is having flat beginnings of interactions. Are there good resources for learning how to do this? I would have called it "first impressions" before finding PUA stuff. "Approach more" was basically the advice I got on RSDNation, and that's not the problem. I've talked to hundreds of people, and this same problem persists. I am obviously not intuitively figuring this part out. I need some kind of detailed guidance here, because I'm not picking it up on my own. |
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| Author: | hugge [ Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first minute is like being sodomized with a rake |
I don't really get what happens when things DO go your way!? Is it only the first minutes you lack energy? What happens next? Do you become more fun, enthusiastic and energetic once you feel comfortable? Because if you do, my guess would be that fear has something to do with it, like approach anxiety, which you overcome in this way that you describe - boring. It could be a learned behavior that you do by habit and that can be unlearned. To begin with, let's talk about two rules of thumb that can be really helpful: 1. You should have almost the same energy level, or rather the same state of mind, as the set. Just a little bit higher. Not super high. "The law of state transference" as RSD calls it automatically put you in the mood of the surrounding people, naturally. This creates rapport and is a good thing. PUAs who are completely oblivious usually try to have extreme state and energy and just come off as weird. Putting some effort behind your interactions gives you that little extra energy you need and is something people appreciate, because it helps them get in a better mood too, and will give you credit by liking you and thinking "you are such a great guy". 2. You should only approach when you do it from a non needy frame. When is that? That's when you are in state, having fun, having some value to offer (a good mood). The symptoms of non-neediness is that your approach anxiety is gone. You talk to people just to include them in the party. The opposite is when you're out of state, don't know what to say, having that approach anxiety etcetera. Ask yourself, why would you approach in that case? Because you want something, of course! Because you are needy! Don't do that. The "paradox" of the second rule is that you *need* to approach and talk to people to get momentum and state. You can solve this by lowering your level of investment. Just say "hi" to be he first sets and leave it there, to begin with. Next time you open say something more, "hi, do you know where the bathroom is?". In small steps you incrementally build up your state. Low investment is key. This is also a method to deal with that fear, if that's what you're having. I can recommend the book Models - Attract women through honesty. It mentions this. I don't know if this hit the spot or was completely off topic. But I hope it shed some light nonetheless. Good luck! |
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| Author: | oceanx [ Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first minute is like being sodomized with a rake |
I am guessing that due to the history, your expectancy is causing a self fulfilling prophecy of interactions that don't achieve the results you and ultimately the girl, if willing, would want. I am also assuming that you constantly display this low energy as you call it, but that peeps get used to it and "get" you, but only the small percentage who actually pass through that first minute awkward barrier. Rather than framing it in your mind that you possess "low" energy, embody the same socially calibrated energy that you would display when interacting in public with a girl you were already very close to. Tonality, body language, eye contact, flirtatiousness, playfulness. |
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| Author: | SonarPulse [ Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first minute is like being sodomized with a rake |
No, my energy level stays about the same. I'm pretty chill, no matter what. I'm not sure exactly how their opinion of me shifts. I assume it's because they initially think that if I'm not smiles and high fives right off, I must boring or depressing or something. Once we've talked for a few minutes and we're relating and chatting, they like me. But it takes a few minutes for them to warm up to me. What I'm saying is(and I think I have an unusual problem) is that I am totally comfortable with people. But they don't initially find me compelling. After talking to me for a bit, they often go from thinking "He seems decent" to "Oh, cool, I like him and we seem to get along." I don't warm up to them much at all. It's pretty much them changing how they respond to me. As far as the rule of thumb goes... #1 is basically exactly what I said I've already tried and it doesn't work for me. I am a natural introvert, and there is never a time I naturally feel more energetic than almost any group. And I don't fake high energy well. I have seen other people who are lower energy and they get different reactions. Yes, most socially successful people are extroverts, but not all of them. I already know it's possible to do, without being "The life of the party". That's not me. #2 Isn't my problem. The problem isn't that I'm afraid of people, or "want something" from them. I just get flat initial reactions. Oddly enough, the best reactions I tend to get right off the bat are from girls who are so pretty, they're basically out of my league. The less attractive the person, the worst things go. I'm not sure why that is, either. Btw, this is everywhere in normal life. I don't even really do bars and clubs. This is how things go when meeting friends of friends, classmates, etc. About the closet thing I've done to "daygame" is talking to girls in line in public, or at events like a concert. I've never stopped random women in the streets and I have no interest in doing so. |
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| Author: | SonarPulse [ Fri Nov 20, 2015 6:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first minute is like being sodomized with a rake |
Quote: I am guessing that due to the history, your expectancy is causing a self fulfilling prophecy of interactions that don't achieve the results you and ultimately the girl, if willing, would want. Possible. But this applies to everyone. Male, female, young, old. And it wasn't even something I truly noticed until recently. I kind of felt like "Everybody that gives me a chance seems to like me, but most don't... why?". I never even realized it was the very, very start of the interaction until a few months ago. This was a pretty recent realization.Quote: I am also assuming that you constantly display this low energy as you call it, but that peeps get used to it and "get" you, but only the small percentage who actually pass through that first minute awkward barrier. Yeah, I think this is definitely true. That's why I'm trying to figure out how to fix this, so things go better with more consistency.Quote: Rather than framing it in your mind that you possess "low" energy, embody the same socially calibrated energy that you would display when interacting in public with a girl you were already very close to. Tonality, body language, eye contact, flirtatiousness, playfulness. See, that's what I'm saying. I already do this. I don't change what I do, or how I'm acting. They do. And I don't really think of myself as "low energy", but that's how PUA material seems to describe it. I think of myself as laid back and chill.
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| Author: | SonarPulse [ Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first minute is like being sodomized with a rake |
Still haven't really fixed this. Still don't know where to start. |
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| Author: | DJ_Z [ Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The first minute is like being sodomized with a rake |
You need structure. You're relying on advice from people who are artiss when you need engineering. It's fine to start with some scripting until you get the hang of it. |
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