PUA Forum :: Is this considered an IOI?

Sorry, but I am new at this and sure it is obvious to a seasoned veteran.

I was at a local store and started some small talk with this chick. Though friendly she would not smile at all. Finally I smiled at her and she returned a smile. Testing this, the same thing happened twice more. Just wondering if this is worth pursuing or not.

Quote:

I would need to know more about the situation. Smiling first shows that you are needy and seeking something. Her smiling back can mean anything.

Smiling first shows that you are needy and seeking something.

Finally I smiled at her and she returned a smile. Testing this, the same thing happened twice more. Just wondering if this is worth pursuing or not.

The guys above cleared up the smiling but but; I must say if she wasn't smiling she may have had a bad day leading up to your meeting, you always have to keep this on your mind. As well she could just be a Low self esteem girl.

If anyone is wondering about smiling and whether you should or shouldn't I highly recommend watching a couple episodes of Burn Notice. The main character smiles CONSTANTLY and he shows his teeth and it's amazing, the draw he has is profound. I really try to model a lot of my actions after him.

I would honestly rather escalate and be wrong then not escalate at all.

Quote:

I would honestly rather escalate and be wrong then not escalate at all.

This is a good point, and a decent overall assumption.

But I've seen cases where it can be counter productive as well.

I've seen many retail locations where if female employees are seen talking to a single guy, the managers go immediately into cock block mode.

Because the girls are constantly fending off clumsy and even sometimes obscene advances from overly aggressive, and socially indiscreet guys who assume that just because a girl is working there and is friendly in a sales clerk sort of way she's open to dating the customers.

If a girl is into you in a retail store, you'll know it from more than just a smile or normal help the customer type of conduct. And if you're not getting these signals, you're largely wasting your time and building negative social momentum (the opposite of social proof).

Author:	rc [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Is this considered an IOI?
Sorry, but I am new at this and sure it is obvious to a seasoned veteran. I was at a local store and started some small talk with this chick. Though friendly she would not smile at all. Finally I smiled at her and she returned a smile. Testing this, the same thing happened twice more. Just wondering if this is worth pursuing or not.

Author:	Medic [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:
Yes, as far as I'm concerned, this is an IOI. It sounds like mirroring to me. Senior members: please correct me if I'm off base.

Author:	chio [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Is this considered an IOI?
Quote: Sorry, but I am new at this and sure it is obvious to a seasoned veteran. I was at a local store and started some small talk with this chick. Though friendly she would not smile at all. Finally I smiled at her and she returned a smile. Testing this, the same thing happened twice more. Just wondering if this is worth pursuing or not. I would need to know more about the situation. Smiling first shows that you are needy and seeking something. Her smiling back can mean anything.

Author:	Rye Lee [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Is this considered an IOI?
Quote: Quote: Sorry, but I am new at this and sure it is obvious to a seasoned veteran. I was at a local store and started some small talk with this chick. Though friendly she would not smile at all. Finally I smiled at her and she returned a smile. Testing this, the same thing happened twice more. Just wondering if this is worth pursuing or not. I would need to know more about the situation. Smiling first shows that you are needy and seeking something. Her smiling back can mean anything. WRRRROOOONG! There is nothing wrong with smiling first! Do it! It is one of the characteristics of an alpha male to smile. It shows that you are a positive and friendly person. The fact that she smiled back is indeed an IOI.

Author:	justright [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:56 am ]
Post subject:
Yea, I agree, if she wasn't smiling before she may just have been nervous, and you smiling most likely put her ease and made her feel more comfortable.

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Author:	The Doctor [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:52 am ]
Post subject:
I'm with Rye Lee. I smile ALOT... and for several reasons. If she smiles back not only is that a postive sign and an IOI, but it also makes her feel better, more happy, while she is looking at me(anchor). It makes you seem more approachable, which can be helpfull if you have confident bodylanguage... believe it or not alot of 7/8/9's will think your out of thier league simply based off of strong body language... this lets them know your and exceptional person who is also nice. Lastly I'm just a happy person 99% of the time... People tend to gravitate towards happy people much more then serious/sad/grumpy people.

Author:	Starbuck [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 3:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Is this considered an IOI?
Quote: Smiling first shows that you are needy and seeking something. This is ridiculous. Whenever dealing with a chick you like, smile occasionally or when you're teasing her. It's part of cocky/funny. Don't overdo it.

Author:	Starbuck [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Is this considered an IOI?
Quote: Finally I smiled at her and she returned a smile. Testing this, the same thing happened twice more. Just wondering if this is worth pursuing or not. It's worth coming back to the store again. I wouldn't escalate just because a chick smiled at you. You need a little more than this. Or you risk making a clumsy or an obvious move and being labeled as a problem customer. Or she'll close down completely and avoid you (this is related to ASD). Go back shopping at the store sometime, and try to make some eye contact with her, or better yet use proximity (look at an item near where she is to try to get her to notice you, and see if she opens you or remembers you). Don't approach her, let her come to you. And if she does it's a positive sign and you should try to bait her into giving you IOI's (playing with hair, facing you, hanging around while you shop, etc..). Then you can escalate by asking her what's she's doing later, n-close, etc... Sometimes these chicks will set you up if you play along. For instance, find something's that's not in your size and have her order it for you from another store. Then tell her to call you when it comes in. Then when she calls you, chat her up. If she balks, tell her you changed your mind about the item. Sneaky I know, but it works. These retail situations can be somewhat complicated. If you play it right and discreetly retail can be an almost endless supply of hot girls. You mess it up once and you're done. Word travels fast, and like all girls they look out for one other. Whether it's a fact is secondary to whether it is a female perception. Not to mention the problems you generally have from male managers in the stores themselves. They tend to watch these girls and their interactions like hawks. Part of the reason is they are paying them, the other reason is often they are trying to get with 'em too. So be discreet and don't be obvious. If you can't do either or the situation isn't favorable for doing so (busy, etc..), better to come back to fight another day.

Author:	Rye Lee [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:50 am ]
Post subject:
If anyone is wondering about smiling and whether you should or shouldn't I highly recommend watching a couple episodes of Burn Notice. The main character smiles CONSTANTLY and he shows his teeth and it's amazing, the draw he has is profound. I really try to model a lot of my actions after him.

Author:	Augustus [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:04 am ]
Post subject:
The guys above cleared up the smiling but but; I must say if she wasn't smiling she may have had a bad day leading up to your meeting, you always have to keep this on your mind. As well she could just be a Low self esteem girl. For future reference please be specific on the situation or at leat tell us how you would rate her

Author:	Rye Lee [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:13 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: The guys above cleared up the smiling but but; I must say if she wasn't smiling she may have had a bad day leading up to your meeting, you always have to keep this on your mind. As well she could just be a Low self esteem girl. I don't think we need to over think it. She smiled back as soon as he smiled, so she wasn't grumpy or anything, she just didn't initiate the smile, which is perfectly OK. If women would always initiate, we wouldn't have to be PUAs, because they would open us. He has shown us all the power of smiling and that when you don't smile, they don't smile. If you talk to her without any kind of smile or emotion on your face, don't expect her to smile, but if you smile, she will typically respond in kind.

Author:	L.A. Tripp [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: If anyone is wondering about smiling and whether you should or shouldn't I highly recommend watching a couple episodes of Burn Notice. The main character smiles CONSTANTLY and he shows his teeth and it's amazing, the draw he has is profound. I really try to model a lot of my actions after him. I LOVE that show. Can't wait till the next season starts. I love that main character.

Author:	anutharound [ Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:
I don't focus on iois it's just more to think about that I don't need. I guess this wouldn't work for someone new, but all I'm saying is don't overthink this. If I have to determine whether something is an ioi or not I just assume it is. If you are ever unsure about anything always assume the choice that has the most positive benefit to you. I would honestly rather escalate and be wrong then not escalate at all.

Author:	Starbuck [ Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:10 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: I would honestly rather escalate and be wrong then not escalate at all. This is a good point, and a decent overall assumption. But I've seen cases where it can be counter productive as well. I've seen many retail locations where if female employees are seen talking to a single guy, the managers go immediately into cock block mode. Because the girls are constantly fending off clumsy and even sometimes obscene advances from overly aggressive, and socially indiscreet guys who assume that just because a girl is working there and is friendly in a sales clerk sort of way she's open to dating the customers. If a girl is into you in a retail store, you'll know it from more than just a smile or normal help the customer type of conduct. And if you're not getting these signals, you're largely wasting your time and building negative social momentum (the opposite of social proof). Like I said retail stores are a complicated place to operate, mainly because they are not normally considered to be social environments. They are a business and she's being paid to be nice to customers.

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Author:	poeticlyskuac [ Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:20 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: I would honestly rather escalate and be wrong then not escalate at all. This is a good point, and a decent overall assumption. But I've seen cases where it can be counter productive as well. I've seen many retail locations where if female employees are seen talking to a single guy, the managers go immediately into cock block mode. Because the girls are constantly fending off clumsy and even sometimes obscene advances from overly aggressive, and socially indiscreet guys who assume that just because a girl is working there and is friendly in a sales clerk sort of way she's open to dating the customers. If a girl is into you in a retail store, you'll know it from more than just a smile or normal help the customer type of conduct. And if you're not getting these signals, you're largely wasting your time and building negative social momentum (the opposite of social proof). Agreed I am a manager at a store, it is our job to step in if my worker feels uncomfortable. I get to see guys try and pick up on a few girls at my work., it is pretty fun to laugh at people later. Using pick up lines on a clerk is a mistake. You need to realize that girls who work in retail will see 100 people plus a day, customer service(smiling) is part of their job, so you don't want to hit on her, you want to talk to her. Listen you will get further that way.