PUA Forum :: Too much silence after a brilliant openers. What can I do?

But I'm held back by the feeling that I might come across as someone trying to pick her up!

Helllo, Clooney.

You can use a technique which I call the altruistic Hook.

It runs like this:

You: Hey, are you familiar with this area?
Her: Yeah!
You: Cool! You've got an interesting accent. Are you from Wales?
Her: No, Bristol.
You: You're the first girl from Bristol I've ever met. (HIGH FIVE) It's a lovely accent.
Her: Oh thank you.
You: Well, from What I can understand of it.
Her: LOL
You: You're gonna give me some help, ok? By the way, have you been shopping all day today?
Her: Yeah, I have.
You: I can tell, your hair is all over the place. What's your favorite shop? and don't say Topshop!
Her: River Island blah
You: Cool! So you say you're familiar with this area? Do you know any shoe shops around here?

Now, the thing about this is that the opening question will be construed as a request for help. IT invokes an altruistic response in her which is so powerful that it will root her to the spot until you've asked the question. The conversation is invested with a purpose. But the thing is, you pull back from asking the question until you've completed a little conversation with her! The last question is the request for help ie "where are the shoe shops?"

I hope this makes sense.

A good way to conceal neediness when asking questions is to simply ask leading questions which are very colorful.

Instead of asking where did you buy that hat?

You might want to ask instead: "Did you steal that Hat off a princess?"

I agree fully with 870.

Clooney: "That hat has just won the Best Hat of the Day competition ! It was a close contest. I seen a lot of great hats today. But yours is the winner. Congratualitons !

HB: [smiles] "Thank you. And what is the prize?"

Clooney: And the prize is...,a conversation with me! Congratulations! *cocky/funny energy here*

Then you look in her shopping basket and start a conversation about that.

"Are those canned tomatoes? Yuck I hate those. Did you know studies show that (some random scientific fact)..."

That's what I would've done. Neg her on her food choices, and switch to the food topic because you're in a grocery store. It makes topical and locational sense and opens up a lot of material. But it's easy to pick it apart in retrospect. Good opener though with the hat. That took guts.

Quote:

I love this 'altruistic' style of opening. I'm going to put that in practice when I can. I'm glad you pointed out the way to conceal neediness with an opener like this.

The line: "Did you steal that hat off a princess?" is something that takes a lot of confidence to deliver, don't you think so?

But once again, if an HB senses that she is being picked up, and is she likes the guy, she'll go along with the routines and gambits? Is that what you are saying?

Quote:

But once again, if an HB senses that she is being picked up, and is she likes the guy, she'll go along with the routines and gambits? Is that what you are saying?

No, what I'm saying is that the prevailing conventional wisdom that women don't like being hit on, don't enjoy or seek out sex and are ultimately trying to make seduction a near-impossible task for men couldn't be further from the truth if it was spoken by George Bush and written by Dick Cheney.

She wants to get laid just as bad, if not worse, than you do; however, like I said in my first post, she wants to make sure you're a worthwhile investment of time and energy first. That's what routines and gambits are designed to demonstrate, although I personally don't agree with or practice that form of attraction.

Your boy,
870

Also, I like your technique of predicting possible responses and coming up with variations of retorts. Thank you so much. Can't wait to sarge now !

Author:	Clooney [ Mon May 25, 2009 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Too much silence after a brilliant openers. What can I do?
Hello fellow PUAs !! I've been in The GAme for about 3 months. When sarging, I'm opening without much Approach Anxiety. I'm getting brilliant responses. The problem is what happens aftewards. I feel like a great soccer team like Mancheter United who score a great goal in the first minute. Then, I can't believe I pulled off a minor miracle. So, I can't maintain the same tempo and exuberant performance. And that pattern is getting me down and demoralised. What shall I do? What do you do? I can learn some routines like the Cube. Or, I could use an opinion opener. But I'm held back by the feeling that I might come across as someone trying to pick her up! How do I subtly and seamlessly move from the opener to the next part of the sarging? Of course, sometimes, an HB won't stop talking. So, I could use lots of info she's mentioning and riff off that. But sometimes, this doesn't happen. Here's what happened this afternoon at London's busiest supermarket: HB is wondering around the shopfloor wearing a Dick Tracy hat. But her hat is striped with blues and grey. I go fairly close to her and ... Clooney: "That hat has just won the Best Hat of the Day competition ! It was a close contest. I seen a lot of great hats today. But yours is the winner. Congratualitons ! HB: [smiles] "Thank you. And what is the prize?" Clooney: And the prize is....well, I don't think there is a prize. But they should have one. [HB moves slowly away from me. I move behind her.] Clooney: Where did you buy it? HB: Oh, I don't know. Clooney: Camden Town? HB: May be, I can't remember. And the HB walks away. I let her go. I crash and burn and cursing myself for making some mistakes. How would you have gamed this HB? I need to know how you transition from the opener to keeep talking and talking and 'playing the game' without coming across as a try-hard or a PUA. Thank you guys in advance for your thougthts. Happpy GAming 'Clooney'

Author:	870 [ Mon May 25, 2009 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: But I'm held back by the feeling that I might come across as someone trying to pick her up! Why let this hold you back? She wants to be picked up, she just wants to make sure you're a worthwhile investment of time and energy first. If one true statement about women and dating was ever made by a Hollywood movie, it's in the opening scene of Hitch when he claims, "No woman wakes up and says 'gee, I hope I don't get swept of my feet today.'" That said, the reason the interaction you talked about in your post didn't go anywhere is because you tried to hang on to a dead conversational thread (the hat). There was obviously no value left in it, yet you continued to try and make a conversation out of it. This is what's known as rapport-seeking, colloquially called "being needy." Next time, you need to bring up a new topic, whether it's a routine, an assumption about her ("I bet you're from California.") or another observation about something she's wearing. It doesn't really matter ... just don't beat a dead horse, so to speak. Hope this helps. Your boy, 870

Author:	Clooney [ Mon May 25, 2009 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:
Thank you so much 870 for that advice. I certainly went too long with the hat opener, didn't I? Well, every approach is a lesson. And yes, that Hitch quote is fab. I just hope you and Will Smith are correct !! But once again, if an HB senses that she is being picked up, and is she likes the guy, she'll go along with the routines and gambits? Is that what you are saying? Happy gaming 'Clooney'

Author:	Clooney [ Mon May 25, 2009 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:
Oh, 870, and thanks for those links to your previousl posts. Your thoghts on humour is gold dust ! I really appreciate it.

Author:	Lion Cub [ Tue May 26, 2009 5:11 am ]
Post subject:
Helllo, Clooney. You can use a technique which I call the altruistic Hook. It runs like this: You: Hey, are you familiar with this area? Her: Yeah! You: Cool! You've got an interesting accent. Are you from Wales? Her: No, Bristol. You: You're the first girl from Bristol I've ever met. (HIGH FIVE) It's a lovely accent. Her: Oh thank you. You: Well, from What I can understand of it. Her: LOL You: You're gonna give me some help, ok? By the way, have you been shopping all day today? Her: Yeah, I have. You: I can tell, your hair is all over the place. What's your favorite shop? and don't say Topshop! Her: River Island blah You: Cool! So you say you're familiar with this area? Do you know any shoe shops around here? Now, the thing about this is that the opening question will be construed as a request for help. IT invokes an altruistic response in her which is so powerful that it will root her to the spot until you've asked the question. The conversation is invested with a purpose. But the thing is, you pull back from asking the question until you've completed a little conversation with her! The last question is the request for help ie "where are the shoe shops?" I hope this makes sense. A good way to conceal neediness when asking questions is to simply ask leading questions which are very colorful. Instead of asking where did you buy that hat? You might want to ask instead: "Did you steal that Hat off a princess?"

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Author:	Antithesis [ Tue May 26, 2009 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Too much silence after a brilliant openers. What can I d
I agree fully with 870. Clooney: "That hat has just won the Best Hat of the Day competition ! It was a close contest. I seen a lot of great hats today. But yours is the winner. Congratualitons ! HB: [smiles] "Thank you. And what is the prize?" Clooney: And the prize is...,a conversation with me! Congratulations! cocky/funny energy here Then you look in her shopping basket and start a conversation about that. "Are those canned tomatoes? Yuck I hate those. Did you know studies show that (some random scientific fact)..." That's what I would've done. Neg her on her food choices, and switch to the food topic because you're in a grocery store. It makes topical and locational sense and opens up a lot of material. But it's easy to pick it apart in retrospect. Good opener though with the hat. That took guts.

Author:	Clooney [ Tue May 26, 2009 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Helllo, Clooney. You can use a technique which I call the altruistic Hook. It runs like this: You: Hey, are you familiar with this area? Her: Yeah! You: Cool! You've got an interesting accent. Are you from Wales? Her: No, Bristol. You: You're the first girl from Bristol I've ever met. (HIGH FIVE) It's a lovely accent. Her: Oh thank you. You: Well, from What I can understand of it. Her: LOL You: You're gonna give me some help, ok? By the way, have you been shopping all day today? Her: Yeah, I have. You: I can tell, your hair is all over the place. What's your favorite shop? and don't say Topshop! Her: River Island blah You: Cool! So you say you're familiar with this area? Do you know any shoe shops around here? Now, the thing about this is that the opening question will be construed as a request for help. IT invokes an altruistic response in her which is so powerful that it will root her to the spot until you've asked the question. The conversation is invested with a purpose. But the thing is, you pull back from asking the question until you've completed a little conversation with her! The last question is the request for help ie "where are the shoe shops?" I hope this makes sense. A good way to conceal neediness when asking questions is to simply ask leading questions which are very colorful. Instead of asking where did you buy that hat? You might want to ask instead: "Did you steal that Hat off a princess?" I love this 'altruistic' style of opening. I'm going to put that in practice when I can. I'm glad you pointed out the way to conceal neediness with an opener like this. The line: "Did you steal that hat off a princess?" is something that takes a lot of confidence to deliver, don't you think so?

Author:	Clooney [ Tue May 26, 2009 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Too much silence after a brilliant openers. What can I d
Quote: I agree fully with 870. Clooney: "That hat has just won the Best Hat of the Day competition ! It was a close contest. I seen a lot of great hats today. But yours is the winner. Congratualitons ! HB: [smiles] "Thank you. And what is the prize?" Clooney: And the prize is...,a conversation with me! Congratulations! cocky/funny energy here Then you look in her shopping basket and start a conversation about that. "Are those canned tomatoes? Yuck I hate those. Did you know studies show that (some random scientific fact)..." That's what I would've done. Neg her on her food choices, and switch to the food topic because you're in a grocery store. It makes topical and locational sense and opens up a lot of material. But it's easy to pick it apart in retrospect. Good opener though with the hat. That took guts. Thanks Antithesis for that feedback. Cocky/funny is what I need to master. As you say, it is easy to pick it apart in retrospect. I had to think of that hat opener on the spot, and very quickly. One problem with cocky/funny in a grocery store is that I work in it !! So, if I go too far, or if it is poorly received, I'd be in big trouble. But certainly, your suggestions will be fantastic between two shoppers in a supermarket ! I felt my real breakthrough was actually approaching her and delivering that line about hats. Next time, I know a bit more about all the other things I should do!

Author:	Lion Cub [ Tue May 26, 2009 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: Helllo, Clooney. You can use a technique which I call the altruistic Hook. It runs like this: You: Hey, are you familiar with this area? Her: Yeah! You: Cool! You've got an interesting accent. Are you from Wales? Her: No, Bristol. You: You're the first girl from Bristol I've ever met. (HIGH FIVE) It's a lovely accent. Her: Oh thank you. You: Well, from What I can understand of it. Her: LOL You: You're gonna give me some help, ok? By the way, have you been shopping all day today? Her: Yeah, I have. You: I can tell, your hair is all over the place. What's your favorite shop? and don't say Topshop! Her: River Island blah You: Cool! So you say you're familiar with this area? Do you know any shoe shops around here? Now, the thing about this is that the opening question will be construed as a request for help. IT invokes an altruistic response in her which is so powerful that it will root her to the spot until you've asked the question. The conversation is invested with a purpose. But the thing is, you pull back from asking the question until you've completed a little conversation with her! The last question is the request for help ie "where are the shoe shops?" I hope this makes sense. A good way to conceal neediness when asking questions is to simply ask leading questions which are very colorful. Instead of asking where did you buy that hat? You might want to ask instead: "Did you steal that Hat off a princess?" I love this 'altruistic' style of opening. I'm going to put that in practice when I can. I'm glad you pointed out the way to conceal neediness with an opener like this. The line: "Did you steal that hat off a princess?" is something that takes a lot of confidence to deliver, don't you think so? Going up to a woman and nakedly using openers in the day can be a source of huge anxiety. the altruistic opener banishes most of this anxiety I think it's good to keep in mind that PUAs should WANT to be judged and evaluated by the woman, negatively or positively. great people WANT their work to be evaluated. PUAs don't mind being perceived as trying to seduce, they're only interested in being judged and getting feedback. Getting rejected is better than not approaching, and helps you identify and address your weak points. The irony is that you'll rarely get rejected anyway, because most women are sweethearts. Here's another technique which might help you: It's all about designing the conversational frame prior to meeting the woman. Woman's responses are predictable, simply anticipate their responses and have lots of stock questions and responses at the ready. There's no need to be spontaneous, in fact the pressure of being spontaneous can be very hard to deal with for a newbie. This is your task open your word processor and simply write down questions you'll want to ask her, predict what her responses will be, and then have responses (negs, DHVs, C/F statements/ Jokes, etc) and questions at the ready. Having this acts as a safety blanket which deepens your sense of control in the field, because you have a conversational frame which you can navigate by. For example. Here's one I quickly designed and could test tomorrow. Although it's not very good (except the opener which is exceptional): You: That hat has just won the Best Hat of the Day competition ! It was a close contest. I seen a lot of great hats today. But yours is the winner. Congratualitons ! Her: LOL. Thanks! You: Seriously, I like it, it really brings out your eyes. Especially your left one. (neg) Her: LOL. You: Also, I noticed you've got blonde hair? Can I ask you a serious question? Her: Sure go ahead. You: How difficult is it being blonde? Is it hard being the centre of a lot of negative stereotypes? Her: LOL/ yes/no. I'm not stupid, I'm intelligent. LOL. You: I'm blonde, myself, but in men the pattern is reversed. Blonde men are hugely inteligent... and charimatic, sexy, charming, confident and funny. Her: LOL You: Nah, only joking, we're pretty stupid aswell. Do you know why blonde women have bruised belly buttons? Her: No. You: Because they have blonde boyfriends. (this might not be suitable for the day game, not sure) Continue asking questions and predicting her answers and responding with pre arranged material.

Author:	870 [ Tue May 26, 2009 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: But once again, if an HB senses that she is being picked up, and is she likes the guy, she'll go along with the routines and gambits? Is that what you are saying? No, what I'm saying is that the prevailing conventional wisdom that women don't like being hit on, don't enjoy or seek out sex and are ultimately trying to make seduction a near-impossible task for men couldn't be further from the truth if it was spoken by George Bush and written by Dick Cheney. She wants to get laid just as bad, if not worse, than you do; however, like I said in my first post, she wants to make sure you're a worthwhile investment of time and energy first. That's what routines and gambits are designed to demonstrate, although I personally don't agree with or practice that form of attraction. Your boy, 870

Author:	Clooney [ Wed May 27, 2009 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Quote: But once again, if an HB senses that she is being picked up, and is she likes the guy, she'll go along with the routines and gambits? Is that what you are saying? No, what I'm saying is that the prevailing conventional wisdom that women don't like being hit on, don't enjoy or seek out sex and are ultimately trying to make seduction a near-impossible task for men couldn't be further from the truth if it was spoken by George Bush and written by Dick Cheney. She wants to get laid just as bad, if not worse, than you do; however, like I said in my first post, she wants to make sure you're a worthwhile investment of time and energy first. That's what routines and gambits are designed to demonstrate, although I personally don't agree with or practice that form of attraction. Your boy, 870 That's great to hear. So, is approaching & demonstrating is a form of selling myself to make sure that I'm a "worthwhile investment." What I find curious is that if you don't use routines or gambits, what exactly do you do? May be I should do some research on your posts here !! I'll get back to you 870 !

Author:	Clooney [ Wed May 27, 2009 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:
Going up to a woman and nakedly using openers in the day can be a source of huge anxiety. the altruistic opener banishes most of this anxiety I think it's good to keep in mind that PUAs should WANT to be judged and evaluated by the woman, negatively or positively. great people WANT their work to be evaluated. PUAs don't mind being perceived as trying to seduce, they're only interested in being judged and getting feedback. Getting rejected is better than not approaching, and helps you identify and address your weak points. The irony is that you'll rarely get rejected anyway, because most women are sweethearts. Here's another technique which might help you: It's all about designing the conversational frame prior to meeting the woman. Woman's responses are predictable, simply anticipate their responses and have lots of stock questions and responses at the ready. There's no need to be spontaneous, in fact the pressure of being spontaneous can be very hard to deal with for a newbie. This is your task open your word processor and simply write down questions you'll want to ask her, predict what her responses will be, and then have responses (negs, DHVs, C/F statements/ Jokes, etc) and questions at the ready. Having this acts as a safety blanket which deepens your sense of control in the field, because you have a conversational frame which you can navigate by. For example. Here's one I quickly designed and could test tomorrow. Although it's not very good (except the opener which is exceptional): You: That hat has just won the Best Hat of the Day competition ! It was a close contest. I seen a lot of great hats today. But yours is the winner. Congratualitons ! Her: LOL. Thanks! You: Seriously, I like it, it really brings out your eyes. Especially your left one. (neg) Her: LOL. You: Also, I noticed you've got blonde hair? Can I ask you a serious question? Her: Sure go ahead. You: How difficult is it being blonde? Is it hard being the centre of a lot of negative stereotypes? Her: LOL/ yes/no. I'm not stupid, I'm intelligent. LOL. You: I'm blonde, myself, but in men the pattern is reversed. Blonde men are hugely inteligent... and charimatic, sexy, charming, confident and funny. Her: LOL You: Nah, only joking, we're pretty stupid aswell. Do you know why blonde women have bruised belly buttons? Her: No. You: Because they have blonde boyfriends. (this might not be suitable for the day game, not sure) Continue asking questions and predicting her answers and responding with pre arranged material.[/quote] This is an hilarious calibration of my Hat opener. This is worth doing just for the fun of it !! I love that neg about how her hat brings out the left eye better! LOL ! Also, I like your technique of predicting possible responses and coming up with variations of retorts. Thank you so much. Can't wait to sarge now !

Author:	Clooney [ Wed May 27, 2009 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:
That last post of mine contains mostly a quote from Lion Cub's response.

Author:	Lion Cub [ Thu May 28, 2009 1:04 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Also, I like your technique of predicting possible responses and coming up with variations of retorts. Thank you so much. Can't wait to sarge now ! I call it a pre-choreographed script. You'll find that you can enforce 90% of your side of the script even if you're getting responses you didn't anticipate.

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Author:	Ezo [ Thu May 28, 2009 1:09 am ]
Post subject:
Any time I get stuck I run a cold reading... That opens up conversation.