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Best way to open naturally?
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Author:  DeathShredder23 [ Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:18 am ]
Post subject:  Best way to open naturally?
Hey guys. I want to know what the best way to open up a set, or even a lone girl during day game would be. I have always looked up to guys like Style and Mystery, but I have noticed that they use a lot of canned material, which works great for clubs where women are so used to drunk bar rats coming onto them during all hours of the night. I would like to master both direct/natural, and indirect/unnatural game. However, I REALLY want to learn as much as I can about just being alpha and not relying on routines/canned material if I don't have to. I went on to youtube and started watching videos of Jesse, Jason, and Kong from "Simple Pickup", and wow these guys are awesome!!! The thing that I love most about their videos is that they have NO fear whatsoever!!! It's crazy. I want game like that!!! They just go out and have fun either at night or during the day and just approach girls. And it's as if they've been that way there whole lives even though they haven't. They just come off as "natural" and I want to attain that vibe. I have already planned out going out during the day at places around town this summer and paying a visit to one of my favorite hunting grounds; the beach!!!
I know that I just need to go and approach without any real desire for outcome and just enjoy the process, but something is confusing me. In a lot of the simple pickup videos, Jesse goes up to girls and just blurts out, "Hey you guys are cute/adorable and I just had to come and meet you", and after they've talked for a bit, he almost always pulls the number. What confuses me about this is that I was under the assumption that saying things like this to girls is very AFC, and that's kind of how I got into pickup, by looking at my past and realizing I was doing this kind of shit and not getting results. Maybe I've been reading too much into Mystery Method??? I guess what I'm asking is, will I creep them out or make them feel like they don't have to work for my value if I approach with something like that even IF I am very calm, strong, and alpha about it?
My alternative on the beach might be, "Hey, how's it going? *Girls respond* "I was walking the beach and I saw you guys lying here, and I had to come meet you and see if you guys were cool/fun." *Introduction with handshake follows, then I lock myself into the set by asking the girl to give me her hands so I can get her out of her seat on the towel, deliver a false time constraint, then work my magic and have some fun!!!! ;)
Coming from a strong, non-threatening, alpha mindset of course...
What do you guys think of what I just said for opening a two set or higher on the beach?
Author:  puaninja [ Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
Honestly, I like to use observational/witty openers. Walk by the girls on the beach and say "Hold up a minute, is that a 'Hello Kitty' beach towel?" She'll be like "Uh, no, it's just a pink towel." Then you say something like "Oh ok, because someone just stole my Hello Kitty beach towel and I'm trying to track them down."

But aside from your opening, do you have some game you can run after that? Because if you don't, you won't get far, regardless of how clever your opener is.
Author:  DeathShredder23 [ Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
I sure do Ninja! Haha I planned for this shit in advance!!! Once I am locked into the set by shuffling the girl of my choice out of her seat, I will say something like, "And that my friends, is how you steal a gullible girl's seat!" Maybe she laughs or smiles, maybe she doesn't, but probably. I then give my time constraint and pat the edge of the towel for her to sit down and join us. "Honestly though, I can't stay and hang with you guys all day, cause I've gotta get back to my friends in a bit, but now that I'm here, I want a female opinion on something that's really been on my mind." I know what you're thinking. Why use an opener if you have already opened the set, right? Well, here's why! It's Style's Kashmir sweater opener, and it is planted with at least 3 DHV spikes. Not that I need those spikes right then and there, but it helps. On top of that, it shows I'm random, and if delivered properly, shows that I might have some interesting things to talk about. It also stimulates them in the conversation by letting them give their opinions and gives them a chance to really feel like they're part of the interaction. After that, it's time for the best friends routine. "You guys look close. How long have you two known each other?" *Answer* "Yea I could totally tell. There's something you both do that totally gives it away." *OMG! What?!?!?* Haha, and then I go from there. After that, I say, "Tell ya what, I'll show you one more cool thing, and then after that, I'm gonna have to start to charging. Take out a dollar bill and give me your hands." I have her crumble the dollar up and say "Open your hand. Now close it." I do that like 5 times and then say, "This isn't a trick, I just wanted to hold your hand." She probably laughs, and it's good basic kino escalation. Then I follow that up with, "Seriously I know how to read palms though. I was taught along time ago by a psychic in my family how to do it. Let me see what you're working with." Then I scan her hand. "Hmm, nothing unusual so far, except, WOW, I can't even believe what I'm seeing..."
*What do you see?* "It's what we call an "Extra Chromosome Line". It's typically found on people who are dumb enough to believe in this stuff. Shall I continue?" She's laughing, I'm laughing/smiling. I put her hand down and put my arms back exposing my chest and spread my legs out to relax and take up space in an alpha male manner. I may even position my leg closest to the target away from her as a slight IOD. After some brief silence, I talk about why I love the beach and how it feels like a second home to me. I get really visual and begin to sound passionate about it. I truly feel this way in real Life anyway, so it will be nice to break out of flirting for 5 minutes. After that, I tell the girl that I've been ignoring (the target) that my back hurts and I could use a quick shoulder massage. If she accepts, then great. I have done good so far, and by attracting her friend so well, she now wants some attention directed at her. What a perfect way to do so with a harmless back rub. I tell her a couple times though during the massage that she is just not doing it right. Then I tell her to get off me and tell her I'll show her how it's done. I am actually very skilled in massaging and have had girls compliment me on it in the past. I don't touch her ass or legs or anything, just shoulders, neck, soft part of the wrist, arms, sides of stomach, fingers and hands. By the time it's done, I will number close the both of them, as I think it would be hard to get one away from the other, and if this was a 3 set, I probably wouldn't even go for the massage. Idk, maybe. I want to kiss close before I go for the number though. So, if I have a wing with me, I will have him on speed dial and tell him to watch for his queue when I hit his name on my phone and he sees it come up on his. This happens after the massage if he came to the beach with me. He comes in, gets an accomplishment intro from me, I tell him he's gotta meet these two girls who are pretty cool so far, and he asks which one is the crazy one, I tell him that we'll have to debate that later when we get home. He keeps the girl(s) furthest away from me occupied, and I have the other girl stand up, and then I say, "Hey, I'm gonna borrow your friend for a bit. We'll be back soon." Wrap her arm around mine the way Mystery does and say, "Now that's all ya get. Let's go", with a smile. I walk off with her, and settle down on the shoreline after we've got some distance, and follow my kiss close routine. Instant money in theory. What do you think? I want your opinion on this strategy. Does it sound like a damn good one? Basically, the girl that I end up stealing the seat from in the beginning will probably be the obstacle. I want to game her first to really raise her friend's buying temperature before I go for my massage gambit with her. What are your thoughts, Ninja?
Author:  ColdNovember [ Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
Quote:
Hey guys. I want to know what the best way to open up a set, or even a lone girl during day game would be. I have always looked up to guys like Style and Mystery, but I have noticed that they use a lot of canned material, which works great for clubs where women are so used to drunk bar rats coming onto them during all hours of the night. I would like to master both direct/natural, and indirect/unnatural game. However, I REALLY want to learn as much as I can about just being alpha and not relying on routines/canned material if I don't have to. I went on to youtube and started watching videos of Jesse, Jason, and Kong from "Simple Pickup", and wow these guys are awesome!!! The thing that I love most about their videos is that they have NO fear whatsoever!!! It's crazy. I want game like that!!! They just go out and have fun either at night or during the day and just approach girls. And it's as if they've been that way there whole lives even though they haven't. They just come off as "natural" and I want to attain that vibe. I have already planned out going out during the day at places around town this summer and paying a visit to one of my favorite hunting grounds; the beach!!!
I think a big part of SP's success s the fact that they are putting it on youtube for thousands to see. Ane just like just about any video, editing is very important. More than likely, they are just masters of the number game, and dont show you ALL the times they flop and the times they just barely get the number. By doing that, by having a reason to beat their AA, they can imitate being fearless because theyve done it so many times.
Quote:
I know that I just need to go and approach without any real desire for outcome and just enjoy the process, but something is confusing me. In a lot of the simple pickup videos, Jesse goes up to girls and just blurts out, "Hey you guys are cute/adorable and I just had to come and meet you", and after they've talked for a bit, he almost always pulls the number. What confuses me about this is that I was under the assumption that saying things like this to girls is very AFC, and that's kind of how I got into pickup, by looking at my past and realizing I was doing this kind of shit and not getting results. Maybe I've been reading too much into Mystery Method??? I guess what I'm asking is, will I creep them out or make them feel like they don't have to work for my value if I approach with something like that even IF I am very calm, strong, and alpha about it?
*for the record, i wouldnt recomend opening sets in the day time unless you have a wingman that can help you isolate them. In the day when their out with a friend their ASD is typically higher and she has more reasons to blow you off*

actually the point of direct openers (for thats what they are called) is to skyrocket your value in the form of incredible confidence. It will come off as your time is valuable and you go for what you want when you want it, which women love. in regards to that, it doesnt even matter what opener you use, whats important is the follow up.

For example, if you do use a super confident opener and say super confident things, a girl will expect you to ask for her number in a super confident way, and in her eyes you will be a super confident guy and thats how she will remember you, even if youre talking about something ridiculous. You can replace "super confident" with anything you want; "sexy", "weird", "friendly", Thats just the way it works. Simply maintain your chosen frame when youre talking to a girl and she wont freakout when you ask for her number.
]
Author:  puaninja [ Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
Yea, that's a lot, but I can tell it's real. You also have a solid understanding for the fundamentals of routine stacking, DHV, winging, kino, and closing.

My school of thought on opening is to open indirectly with something observational and funny, then use things like opinion questions as part of my middle game routine. That's basically all you are doing. I think your only question was how to break the ice initially and get in set. But once you are in you already know how to stack some opinion questions and do dhv tricks and kino escalate. So I think you are good to go on this my friend.
Author:  DeathShredder23 [ Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
Thanks Ninja and November. I like how you mentioned the hello kitty thing. That made me laugh, and that's a good example of something funny and indirect. Yea I think I'll just go direct with my opener. After I say "Hey, how's it goin?" I'll say "I was walking the beach and I saw you both lying here, and you looked kind of cute, and I had to come over and meet you, to see if you guys were fun." It's simple, but kind of direct. At the same time, there's some slight intrigue from their perspective. I pretty much come in asking if they are fun, which allows them to qualify themselves to me a bit. It also gives them a good chance to blow me out if they don't want me there, which is also good. Cause I wouldn't wanna be there if they didn't want to be. There are plenty of other babes on the beach on a hot summer day...

And thanks for the compliment Ninja. I'm still a newbie, but it's great to hear that I'm well on my way. You've got quite a lot of posts on this forum. I would like to read as many of them as I can. It seems like you have a lot of good information/experiences to offer and I respect that man. It never hurts to learn from someone better than you, and I view the majority of us as brothers in pick up.

And November, they actually DO show quite a bit of unsuccessful attempts at picking up girls in the simple pickup video series. It's funny, and you should check some of their material out. I think they just have a big "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK" attitude when it comes to this stuff. It's great.
Author:  ColdNovember [ Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
Quote:
And November, they actually DO show quite a bit of unsuccessful attempts at picking up girls in the simple pickup video series. It's funny, and you should check some of their material out. I think they just have a big "I DON'T GIVE A FUCK" attitude when it comes to this stuff. It's great.
Yeah thats why i capped "ALL" in my previous post.(i guess i should have bolded it) I watched alot of their videos and enjoyed them for a time. But then i realized that the videos while entertaining, maybe even a bit inspiring, shouldnt be taken too seriously. In their videos it seems the success rate for each guy is at least every 3 out of 4 women, which is very good but because its youtube its easy to just not show the terrible ones.

i mean, who wants to watch these guys get blown off all the time anyways?

i suggest if you want the MOST NATURAL opener( like the one you think of on the spot and not a couple of days before) spend more time in the natural game section of the forum and master your inner game.

you have to learn to walk before you can run afterall
Author:  DeathShredder23 [ Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
Thanks november. I will definitely spend some more time in the natural game section. This is gonna be exciting. Difficult, but exciting. I think i am going to use the opener for beaches that i just mentioned in my last post. I think it's alright for a direct opener. Haha, the only other way I can honestly think you could open directly on the beach would be to say something like, "Hey, nice ass." ;) haha. Idk. I just don't wanna go in like a fucking tool. So I'm not gonna say anything like that. But I like my opener, and like Ninja said, once I lock in, I will probably do fine. :P

If you'd got a better opener for me to see. Please let me know!!! Haha. It's always good to have more lexicon in your arsenal.
Author:  ALPHA LiON [ Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
If I see an IOI e.g smiling I say "Hey I noticed you checking me out" or "I know I'm incredibly good looking but do you think you could maybe try and keep your eyes off me.. your making me nervous"
Your sub communication is important. Ideally stand or lean with a relaxed open stance and speak slowly, don't be afraid to pause to build tension and maintain eye contact while your doing this.

I find if I have enough enough attraction simply saying "Hi" can get her all giggly and excited.
I believe this to be a combination of looking my best and feeling good about myself and I could open with pretty much anything during a situation like that. It happens more easily during day game but I've also had it at parties and bars not so much in clubs.

Working out regularly, quitting porn and fapping once a week will boost your natural game massively (google "no fap") I've found no fap combined with even basic pua knowledge are a pretty lethal combination.

Apologies for going off-topic but the point I was trying to make is it doesn't matter so much what you say but how you project yourself.
Author:  puaninja [ Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
There's a video of Jesse on SPU getting blown out really badly by this asian set. The girls kind of separate and face different directions with him standing in the middle talking to thin air. They are definitely still mortal men.

I've also noticed that the SPU guys will go direct when they are in a really not giving a fuck state, but usually they are more indirect. Sometimes Jason will go up to a girl and be like "I thought you were adorable and I wanted to come say hi."

I personally don't like opening direct, although some pua's swear by it. Because it reveals your hand. They immediatlely know "This guy is hitting on me" and that might conjure up a bitch sheild or make them nervous. But again, it doesn't really matter how you open them as long as you continue to razzle dazzle them with a solid routine and follow up strong.
Author:  DeathShredder23 [ Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
@Ninja. Yea dude I saw that video. It's fucking painful to watch, haha but I thought it was very educational at the same time.

@Lion. No apologies brother. I'm glad to have you onboard with this post as well. Thanks for the insight. I am trying to go as long as I can without fapping, and have already quit porn. Although whenever off I fantasize about fucking her as if we were both in a porno, sooo maybe I'm cheating???...

Anyway, here's my new thought on this post. I'm changing my opener if I go direct. Instead of saying, "I had to come meet you guys, and see if you were fun" I'll say, "I was walking the beach, and I saw you both lying here. You looked like you might be kinda cute, and I had to come over and see if there was more to you than your looks." It comes off as less needy and it's direct but not as direct. Now it's as if I'm qualifying the right from the get go. I don't know if I should let them respond after I say that before crouching to shake their hands, or if I should wait to hear hat they have to say.

Also, I'm going to be getting this sick black wolf tattoo on my left arm. Think half sleeve almost. If I wanted to go indirect, all I would have to do is approach and do a female opinion opener involving the tatt. Some made up bullshit story about how I was helping my buddy's sister move some of her stuff to her new house when her abusive ex bf stopped by to see her at the new place. He's harmed her before so I chased him outta the house. She still has feelings for him, and she totally blew up in my face about it afterwards. She told me and my buddy to leave, and her last words were, "And btw, your tatt fucking sucks!!!" I start laughing and take my leave. Do you guys think she was just upset, or did my artist not use enough detail??? *Said with a sarcastic tone of voice and a smug grin*

Pretty good on the fly, huh dudes?
Btw, I gotta start lifting again. Thanks for the reminder Lion. And if you guys see a dude with a wolf on his arm in the field, come over and say hello! haha.
Author:  ALPHA LiON [ Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
Quote:
Also, I'm going to be getting this sick black wolf tattoo on my left arm. Think half sleeve almost. If I wanted to go indirect, all I would have to do is approach and do a female opinion opener involving the tatt. Some made up bullshit story about how I was helping my buddy's sister move some of her stuff to her new house when her abusive ex bf stopped by to see her at the new place. He's harmed her before so I chased him outta the house. She still has feelings for him, and she totally blew up in my face about it afterwards. She told me and my buddy to leave, and her last words were, "And btw, your tatt fucking sucks!!!" I start laughing and take my leave. Do you guys think she was just upset, or did my artist not use enough detail??? *Said with a sarcastic tone of voice and a smug grin*
I wouldn't open with your "hey look at my tattoo" that's a massive DLV.. the advantage of having a good visible tattoo is that girls will open YOU, ask you about it and touch your arm etc. so that's when you can tell your madeup story (which could be better don't mention the ex girlfriend). You can also open girls with tattoos who will then no doubt ask if you have some and want to see them.
Author:  DeathShredder23 [ Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
Quote:
Quote:
Also, I'm going to be getting this sick black wolf tattoo on my left arm. Think half sleeve almost. If I wanted to go indirect, all I would have to do is approach and do a female opinion opener involving the tatt. Some made up bullshit story about how I was helping my buddy's sister move some of her stuff to her new house when her abusive ex bf stopped by to see her at the new place. He's harmed her before so I chased him outta the house. She still has feelings for him, and she totally blew up in my face about it afterwards. She told me and my buddy to leave, and her last words were, "And btw, your tatt fucking sucks!!!" I start laughing and take my leave. Do you guys think she was just upset, or did my artist not use enough detail??? *Said with a sarcastic tone of voice and a smug grin*
I wouldn't open with your "hey look at my tattoo" that's a massive DLV.. the advantage of having a good visible tattoo is that girls will open YOU, ask you about it and touch your arm etc. so that's when you can tell your madeup story (which could be better don't mention the ex girlfriend). You can also open girls with tattoos who will then no doubt ask if you have some and want to see them.
Yea man you're right about the tatt. I can't believe I didn't catch that DLV. thanks.
Heres the thing though. The girl in the story isn't my ex gf. She's just my buddy's sister who I'm helping move shit around for. Did you mean, don't mention the crazy ex boyfriend?

Lastly, if I choose to go direct, what in your opinion do you think my best opener would be? Based on the stuff that I myself have written right here on this very post. Thanks man!!!
Author:  ALPHA LiON [ Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
Quote:
Yea man you're right about the tatt. I can't believe I didn't catch that DLV. thanks.
Heres the thing though. The girl in the story isn't my ex gf. She's just my buddy's sister who I'm helping move shit around for. Did you mean, don't mention the crazy ex boyfriend?

Lastly, if I choose to go direct, what in your opinion do you think my best opener would be? Based on the stuff that I myself have written right here on this very post. Thanks man!!!
Sorry I read that wrong lol the story is fine then I guess the DHV is that it shows your willing to stand up for your friends and their family.

Going direct means your basically just telling the truth ie. "I think you should come out with me.. give me your phone number" alot of guys are too scared to say these things and three years ago I wouldn't dream of using them. After a good few years of using routines I built up enough confidence to just ask girls out it isn't that difficult.

My DayGame interactions usually go like this,

ME: "Hey... I saw you checking me out"
HER: "(excuses)"
ME: "What are you upto this weekend?"
HER: "nothing or (boring crap)
ME: "That sounds exciting (sarcasm).. I think you should come out for a drink with me"
HER "Yes (or No or Maybe or I have a boyfriend)"
ME: "Ok give me your number and I'll call you"

The I have a boyfriend thing is 50% of the time a shit-test-lie to throw you off
The other 50% of the time she is telling the truth but don't let that stop you

You might be at a level just now where you don't believe this would work in which case I say stick to the routines and building your confidence by improving other areas of your life. This kind of approach won't work unless you believe in yourself. Don't bother using it on girls who don't give you initial IOI's because there is a good chance they don't find you attractive.
Author:  DeathShredder23 [ Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Best way to open naturally?
Sorry I read that wrong lol the story is fine then I guess the DHV is that it shows your willing to stand up for your friends and their family.

Going direct means your basically just telling the truth ie. "I think you should come out with me.. give me your phone number" alot of guys are too scared to say these things and three years ago I wouldn't dream of using them. After a good few years of using routines I built up enough confidence to just ask girls out it isn't that difficult.

My DayGame interactions usually go like this,

ME: "Hey... I saw you checking me out"
HER: "(excuses)"
ME: "What are you upto this weekend?"
HER: "nothing or (boring crap)
ME: "That sounds exciting (sarcasm).. I think you should come out for a drink with me"
HER "Yes (or No or Maybe or I have a boyfriend)"
ME: "Ok give me your number and I'll call you"

The I have a boyfriend thing is 50% of the time a shit-test-lie to throw you off
The other 50% of the time she is telling the truth but don't let that stop you

You might be at a level just now where you don't believe this would work in which case I say stick to the routines and building your confidence by improving other areas of your life. This kind of approach won't work unless you believe in yourself. Don't bother using it on girls who don't give you initial IOI's because there is a good chance they don't find you attractive.[/quote]


Once again you brought up a good point. If there is no confidence there, they will see right through me, and going direct won't do me that good. I've opened on the beach before though, just not the ways I've described above, an even though it was mostly fluff talk, I DID open three sets. All in different days though. Point is though, I think I can do this, and because I'm combining natural game an routines, I actually am confident. Opening properly is the only thing I'm worried about. I know that it doesn't matter as much what you say as how you say it, but, I guess I'll just have to try all of the different versions of beach openers that I have listed above and see what works for me and what doesn't. I'll have to just keep track of the good and not so good.

But, when I asked for your opinion, I meant, what would you rather say? "You guys looked kinda cute, and I had to come meet you, and see if you were cool." Or would something like, "I really like your hair. Is that your natural color?" (Kind of indirect with the compliment there...)

I just ask because if they're not looking at me, I'm not gonna go in and accuse them of checking me out, y know?
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