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Show me what I did wrong
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Author:  JadeSage [ Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:25 am ]
Post subject:  Show me what I did wrong
Okay, this seems to be the best place to put this...

Please be brutally honest. I need to know where I'm going wrong.

Two different chicks, both met online. I realize there is little opportunity to create attraction on the internet. However, it is what it is.

1st chick: Get to chatting online. I tell her to text me. She does. I offer a date. SHe declines the date and time, but counter-offers. Agree to meetup on Thursday. Texts me all week. I ignore most of them, to give her a chance to miss me. Thursday comes, I give her a call to discuss details. She sounds tired, but says she still wants to meet. Later that night, she texts me and says she's too tired to go anywhere. I do not text her back.

2nd chick: We've been trying to get together for a while, each giving the other an offer to hang out. Finally, get her pinned down on Friday. She texts me about an hour before we were supposed to meet to ask if we could do something besides skating since she sprained her toe. Fine, I offer karaoke. She says she might hang out with her sister, she'll let me know. I do not text back. She texts me again an hour after we were supposed to meet asking if I want to meet them at the dog track. I decline. I'm pissed that she's made me an option and I do not want to go on a group date. I then text chick #1 to see if she'd be interested in going skating. SHe texts me back that she is in bed. I do not respond. So I get home and chick #2 IMs me saying how she really wished she could have gone out with me, blah, blah, blah. Wants to know if I'll go out with her then. I tell her I am pissed with her for flaking. She apologizes, whatever. I accept her apology but still do not agree to hang out with her. I later find out she has a boyfriend. At that point I lose interest.

So, the question is, what is it that I'm doing that is causing women to flake on me? These are not isolated incidents. How can I create enough attraction to make them keep their obligations (which they would have if I were attractive enough to them) and how do I deal with them when/if they flake?
Author:  jurupa [ Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Show me what I did wrong
Quote:
1st chick: Get to chatting online. I tell her to text me. She does. I offer a date. SHe declines the date and time, but counter-offers. Agree to meetup on Thursday. Texts me all week. I ignore most of them, to give her a chance to miss me. Thursday comes, I give her a call to discuss details. She sounds tired, but says she still wants to meet. Later that night, she texts me and says she's too tired to go anywhere. I do not text her back.
First off see the bold part. You offered to take her out. Instead invited her out on a date. Secondly you seem to built up comfort but no interest and attraction. If she was truely interested in you she would have not blown you off the first time (unless she had no time to meet you).
Quote:
2nd chick: We've been trying to get together for a while, each giving the other an offer to hang out. Finally, get her pinned down on Friday. She texts me about an hour before we were supposed to meet to ask if we could do something besides skating since she sprained her toe. Fine, I offer karaoke. She says she might hang out with her sister, she'll let me know. I do not text back. She texts me again an hour after we were supposed to meet asking if I want to meet them at the dog track. I decline. I'm pissed that she's made me an option and I do not want to go on a group date. I then text chick #1 to see if she'd be interested in going skating. SHe texts me back that she is in bed. I do not respond. So I get home and chick #2 IMs me saying how she really wished she could have gone out with me, blah, blah, blah. Wants to know if I'll go out with her then. I tell her I am pissed with her for flaking. She apologizes, whatever. I accept her apology but still do not agree to hang out with her. I later find out she has a boyfriend. At that point I lose interest.
Again see the bold part for the exact same reason as above. Secondly this girl was not comfortable with you enough to meet you one on one yet. You should have taken her up on the offer. I am with you on loosing interest when you learn about the boyfriend. But never the less you could have built up comfort with the group date and exclude you and the girl away from the group for one on one time. Also be more flexible with the girl when you ask her out. Because no one wants someone who is always controlling things.
Quote:
So, the question is, what is it that I'm doing that is causing women to flake on me?
Build more attraction with them.
Quote:
How can I create enough attraction to make them keep their obligations (which they would have if I were attractive enough to them) and how do I deal with them when/if they flake?
What do you do to build attraction? Do you DHV? Bring up interesting stories? What? As far as flaking goes. For me at I look at it by case by case. Because you have to realize that the girl you ask out has a life of their own and things come up. She may be in a career that is very time consuming. Or has a lot of personal things going on. So if a girl tells me that she got caught up with work I give her a break and arrange another time to meet. If she says she is "too tired", I say alright and tell her to let me know when she can meet and find other girls to go out with.
Author:  JadeSage [ Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
What is the difference between offering to take someone out and inviting them on a date?

What is DHV?

As for flexibility, does it not put me in the Beta position to act as though I'm cool with someone not showing up when they said they would? I assumed these were shit tests and I was supposed to call them on it.
Author:  Stetson [ Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
DHV = Demonstration of Higher Value

Basically what Jurupa said, but I'd like to point out a few minor things.
Quote:
I do not respond.
I'm seeing this too much in your post.. Just relax, be laid back in what you do. It's not like responding to a girl is going to blow it. It's responding in a wrong manner.

Now I'm not suggesting to respond all the time. Just try to act like a human would, otherwise it will make you look like an ignorant dickhead. Calibrate it ;)


And now to your questions:
Quote:
What is the difference between offering to take someone out and inviting them on a date?
The difference between offering a date and inviting to a date is massive ;) Heres a few examples:
A date offer = "Hey, I thought that maybe we could go out to the town blahblah.."
An invite to a date = "Hey, I'm going out to the town to have some fun. Tag along!"
Quote:
As for flexibility, does it not put me in the Beta position to act as though I'm cool with someone not showing up when they said they would? I assumed these were shit tests and I was supposed to call them on it.
My rule for a flaker is to either show that your time is valuable and you won't hang out with them if they waste it like this.

The other option is to just to forget about it, freeze-out the girl and don't even mention it the next time you might speak to her.

If she asks about it, just say something like you went over to Rita's place who lived nearby and had fun with her. Funny shit ain't it :lol:
Quote:
I decline. I'm pissed that she's made me an option and I do not want to go on a group date.
Quote:
I tell her I am pissed with her for flaking.
A guy got flaked and starts crying about it to the girls who flaked him, while another guy who gets flaked just calls another girl out to satisfy him. ;) Which one is you?
Author:  xiagox [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:05 am ]
Post subject: 
I just want to reiterate what the other two repliers mentioned.

Don't be reactive when the girls flake you. What I mean is, don't say your pissed and just dismiss the topic if you ever talk to the girl again. The reasoning behind this is as the other poster mentioned "the cool guy just goes over to rita's house to have fun with her instead!"

dhv is 'demonstration of higher value' read the stickies in the other boards on this forum.

And the root problem, they're flaking because they haven't become invested in you and you haven't created enough interest. Fix this by freezing them out, then reinitialize contact from a strong frame of mind, i.e. read up on pick up, and then when you reinitialize contact, treat it like you just got her number.

good luck.
Author:  JadeSage [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:08 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks guys. I appreciate the advice. I don't know all the acronyms and frankly they annoy me, but that's cool. I am, however, familiar with the concepts such as Demonstration of Higher Value.

In my mind, I wasn't whining to the girls, but trying to follow certain advice I've read to not let them get away with shit. So, in all your opinions, the opposite is true? That being flaked on is something you shouldn't even acknowledge, if I'm gathering what was said. If I may insert my own input, the 2nd chick I was talking about asked me to come over to her house several times after I confronted her about ditching me for her sister. Why would this be the case if I was whining? Was I wrong to decline her?

Thanks again. Please, a little more brutal in the future! I'm trying to build a thick skin here and y'all aren't helping by babying me j/k.
Author:  jurupa [ Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
In my mind, I wasn't whining to the girls, but trying to follow certain advice I've read to not let them get away with shit. So, in all your opinions, the opposite is true?
Showing your emotions the way you did was whining tho. As far as not letting them get away with shit you need to learn when and how to do it. As there are times when its better to let them to get away with something and not other times.
Quote:
That being flaked on is something you shouldn't even acknowledge, if I'm gathering what was said.
I really depends if its called for or not. As there are times when you should acknowledge it and other times when you should not. Generally speaking if a girl has a legit reason to flak let it go, but she has no legit reason it may be worth while to acknowledge it
Quote:
Why would this be the case if I was whining?
The 2nd chick felt bad for flaking on you (even tho she didn't technically flaked on you as flaked don't offer a back up plan :wink: ). But she most probably would put you in the friend zone due to how you handled your self tho. As whining about something is never a good thing to do.
Quote:
Was I wrong to decline her?
In your case no. If you did not whined about it, then yes as it would have given you the one on one time you wanted.
Author:  JadeSage [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Righteous. Thank you jurupa. That really clears up my confusion. And thank you to all of you who took the time to show me the error of my ways. I'm really glad I found this site. Even though I was emotionally unnattached, or rather, unnattached to my emotions, so to speak, perception is reality, and I think she probably did sense my frustration. I'll try to keep that in check.
Author:  jurupa [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Your welcome.
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