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Not closing on POF: need help!
https://pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=144119		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Artem23 [ Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Not closing on POF: need help!
Hi everyone this is my first post. Ive been practicing my game on POF lately and have gotten much better at opening, however I still cannot get the all important number close when it comes to messaging HB's. Any and all criticism is welcome!

Personally, I think it's hard to hide interest when messaging someone on a dating website, so my initial message consists of a clear statement of intent with a few negs thrown in. Here is a sample of my attempts:

Me: Hey there. My name's Artem. I was looking at your profile and thought it'd be nice to get to know you. I mean, someone who likes death metal and video games is definetly a rockstar in my books ;) Not that it's a requirement, but certainly helps. Anyway, you seem nice so feel free to shoot me a message, just don't get too crazy. Talk to you soon :)

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HB: Don't get too crazy? Haha... ?

Me: I just meant I don't want you to overreact and think this guy is a sure deal or somethingl, I mean I'm know I'm friendly but don't get too ahead of yourself :P

HB: : p you must meet a lot of crazy chicks on here then. I'm not one of them.

Me: Good to hear. Of course, most crazy chicks would deny being crazy. But I'll take your word for it, at least for now :) I would like to know though, what do you have going for you other than your looks?

HB: Well, I'm crazy. But not in the obsessive relationship kind. More in the driven to succeed kind of way. Read my profile. There's tons of stuff going for me. Unless you have a specific thing you're looking to know?

Me: You're forgetting the first rule of crazyness: can't be crazy if you think you are! Sorry, better luck next time :P

I was kind of jjoking anyway. You seem like an interesting person, and Steph it's been really good chatting with you. I need to get going now but it'd be great to get to know you over a drink sometime. If you're up for it :)

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AAAND IT'S GONE
Author:  Artem23 [ Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Another one:

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Me: Hey there. My name's Artem. I was looking through your profile and thought it might be nice to get to know you. I mean, anyone who likes music AND movies is definitely a rockstar in my book ;) Lol, you really do have a good taste though. I thought Stay was a really underrated movie. But I should restrain my inner nerd before I go on to talking about science fiction or something. I just wanted to say hi. Feel free to message me sometime, it would be great for us to get to know each other better. Talk to you soon :)

HB: I'd actually like to know your interpretation on that movie. It's so mis-understood and intricate, but simply outstanding when you grasp it.

Me: Lol, I said i was trying *restrain* my inner nerd, but very well, since I do like that movie a lot...
It kind of makes sense that the story up to Ryan Gosling's death is a dream world, some kind of trauma induced hallucination, and the people at the crash site become characters in it. But, there's also something supernatural about it because he knows things in the dream that he has no way of knowing, such as the people's full names. That's what I found most fascinating about it.

Me: What did you think? Also, I was hoping you'd at least introduce yourself before you start nerding it up, I don't even yet know your name :P

no reply
Author:  Artem23 [ Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Last one:

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Me: Hey there. My name's Artem. I was looking at your profile and thought it'd be nice to get to know you. I mean, someone with so many great hobbies is definetly a rockstar in my book. Anyway, you seem nice so feel free to shoot me a message, just don't get too crazy. Talk to you soon :)

HB: Hi there...you're an artist i see :)

Me: Yeah, I guess so. How about you, what do you want to be? And don't say princess :P

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Dont know what I did wrong here. She gave me an iOi, so I rewarded the good behavior with a small iOi in the form of a question, and threw in a neg as a safeguard. Any advice/ criticism?
Author:  forerunner_uk [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Seems like the mistake you are making is not reading her profile dude. You are asking questions where the answers are listed on her profile. She isn't gonna have time for you then.

Your openers are brilliant. However I would add some normal rapport building questions on there and start a NORMAL conversation. e.g. she mentions she likes travelling so ask her what her favourite place is and compare stories.

Then throw all your PUA skills in around that normal conversation. She wants somebody to talk to so give it to her. You then use your art to convert her from a friend to being seduced into a lover.

Also always have at least one - better two or three - open questions in your message. You lost the girl with the film because you gave your opinion (sounded like an intelligent opinion by the way) but then didn't add anything to the bottom of the message to make her want to reply. You could have finished off with a line or two of funny stuff and then ask an open ended question so she feels she needs to respond.
Author:  lor0001 [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Convo skills
The last girl view your profile and asked you about being an artist. This was an IOI. Your response was 'Yeah I guess' and then you rolled into a badly worded canned line.

I actually use a similar question to qualify. It's solid, it's classic. But think about what you're saying and the frame you're saying it from. If someone asked you that question...worded that way...would you be interested in responding?

You blow off her interest. Bad, reward interest, punish non-compliance.
You have no transition to your qualifer...it's awkward.
Author:  Artem23 [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
Great tips guys. Apprecciate it.

ForErunner_uk: I understand what you mean about the rapport building questions. The reason I usually try not to ask questions is because a lot of PUA's say it lowers your value. Style, for example, says in his book to always speak in statement rather than question. I I may have taken that too far though, and I'm trying openers now with a few questions thrown in.

Lor001: I tried to be coy about being an artist as to not be seen as tooting my own horn. I can see now that's not a great way to demonstrate value, and I there needs to be more of a transition to the qualifier.

Since you thought my qualifier didn't work, I'm very curious to know yours, especially since you say it's similar. If you'd rather not disclose it, though, I understand. I was trying to reward her interest with a question, but I guess it came off as more of a neg/ qualifier.
Author:  lor0001 [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Great tips guys. Apprecciate it.

ForErunner_uk: I understand what you mean about the rapport building questions. The reason I usually try not to ask questions is because a lot of PUA's say it lowers your value. Style, for example, says in his book to always speak in statement rather than question. I I may have taken that too far though, and I'm trying openers now with a few questions thrown in.

Lor001: I tried to be coy about being an artist as to not be seen as tooting my own horn. I can see now that's not a great way to demonstrate value, and I there needs to be more of a transition to the qualifier.

Since you thought my qualifier didn't work, I'm very curious to know yours, especially since you say it's similar. If you'd rather not disclose it, though, I understand. I was trying to reward her interest with a question, but I guess it came off as more of a neg/ qualifier.
You make a great point about questions. In person I agree. Online you have to put in more work than you would in person. Rapport building questions are a great way to show that you 'might' be interested in her and that you are trying to learn more about her.

I use pretty much the same question. I word it slightly differently but the wording doesn't matter. It's the way you flow into the question. You might do better with an opener that makes her laugh. Something funny and confident but...if I were responding I think it would go more like this:

HB: Hi there...you're an artist i see

> She took the time to read your profile. She is mirroring your frame by picking out the trait about you she finds interesting. This is a chance for you to DHV

Me: Yeah . I think it's really important to have something you are passionate about in your life.

If you had to pick just one thing in your life that you're really passionate about what would it be? And don't say your shoe collection :p

PS - You have to change the wording of your question slightly to fit the conversational frame or shift the frame to match it. I often use:

Hmm...ok I'm curious...when you were five what did you want to be when you grew up? And don't say "A Princess" :p
Author:  Artem23 [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thx for sharing! I may have to use that one ;)

I'm curious, do you use such "qualifier questions" in person? Mystery teaches them (and he is against online game altogether), but I've always thought they lack subtlety, I try to go for a more indirect approach.
Author:  forerunner_uk [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:15 am ]
Post subject: 
I understand your point about certain questions lowering your value. I also think its important to do some good old fashioned "getting to know you" talk (fluff talk). Don't dwell on it too much. The odd brief chat so she feels like you have some things in common. Then carry on with your game for a bit, then back to fluff talk, then game and so on.

In my experience you need to talk to a girl for a fair bit online before she will agree to meet you (and then actually turn up to the date). Take your time but don't be afraid to ask for her number when the conversation is good.
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