PUA Forum :: Right Listen Up Virgins, Social Fuckups and Depressants!

Change or die. What if you were given that choice? For real. What if it weren’t just the hyperbolic rhetoric that conflates corporate performance with life or death? Not the overblown exhortations of a rabid boss, or a maniacal coach, or a slick motivational speaker, or a self-dramatizing chief executive ofﬁcer or political leader. We’re talking actual life and death now. Your own life and death. What if a well-informed, trusted authority ﬁgure said you had to make difﬁcult and enduring changes in the way you think, feel, and act? If you didn’t, your time would end soon—a lot sooner than it had to. Could you change when change really mattered? When it mattered most?

"Yes", you say?

Try again.

"Yes?"

You’re probably deluding yourself. That’s what the experts say. They say that you wouldn’t change. Don’t believe it? You want odds? Here are the odds that the experts are laying down, their scientiﬁcally studied odds: nine to one. That’s nine to one against you. How do you like those odds?

good post but disagree on the whole "power fantasy" issue.

its a very normal part of male psychology in young ppl to dream of being almighty and powerful and not a sign of withdrawal or excuse as such.

what I find interesting is how to break that negative feedback cycle that is created by admitting you are shy/insecure.

It is quite easy to argue;
"I am shy insecure around a woman."
"Therefore there is no point trying to talk to woman as they will realize thsi and not be attracted to me"
"This leads to further rejection making u even more shy and insecure"
"Hence why bother?"

It is quite easy to argue;
"I am shy insecure around a woman."
"Therefore there is no point trying to talk to woman as they will realize thsi and not be attracted to me"
"This leads to further rejection making u even more shy and insecure"
"Hence why bother?"

Author:	Fun [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Right Listen Up Virgins, Social Fuckups and Depressants!
You've got a problem! Accept It! Just admit it to yourself now. Say to yourself; "I have got a problem with women in my life" You see your problem is that you have no confidence, but you can't see that becasue as soon as someone tells you, you get defensive! But thats your problem! You can't admit to yourself the fact your insecure, you keep running away from the emotional trauma, by hiding behind something else. Think with me here, how often do you go off and imagine and talk to yourself, as if your in a position of power? You know what I mean, where your, I don't know, famous?, and your dating that supermodel?, and your the best in the world? What you don't know is this: YOU ARE FANTASIZING AS A WAY TO DEFEND YOURSELF. Fact. YOUR FANTASIZING BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT THE FACT THAT YOU AREN'T PERFECT. Fact. YOUR FANTASIZING AS A WAY TO NOT FACE THE EMOTIONAL TRAUMA FACING YOU. Fact. You see, you get nervous, but so does everyone right? Yes, but your nervousness gets too much. You can't control your nervousness. Why? Because you can't accept the fact that your nervous, because you can't accept your human. Next time when you go out, or are about to, say to yourself "God i'm nervous, I always get like this when I meet women." Then go up to women and say "I always get nervous talking to women" This approach is ten times better for the newbie/ AFC! Accept it, there is only one way out of your problems, honesty. Honesty with yourself, honesty around others, and honesty in the things you do. It's the only way to solve YOUR problems in life- not my problems- YOURS. I'm going to ask you something that will change your whole outlook on life. Are you ready? Consider this now, for the benefit for yourself: do you need professional help with your problems? Stop and think. Now answer it from the heart, don't ignore any emotion that you feel- that's wht has been fucking you up so much already! If you feel yes, than the answer is yes. Accept it! Honesty with yourself is most important. You guys are wondering why your no good with women? Because women are the leaf of the weed. Women are not the problem, you are! And just like with the weed no amount of cutting the leaf is going to help, you need to tackle the root- which is you can't be honest with yourself. Look at this: HONESTY - LEADS TO- CONFIDENCE What do you really want a women for? Sex? You don't know? Maybe here's where you should start your journey with them? Make sense wouldn't it seeing as there's loads of them! Finally, look, read and learn from a man who was most probaly worse off in the beginning, than you, now I don't need to tell what my love lifes like, because all that matters is this= I feel ten times better than I used to! I Hope this helps you help yourself

Author:	alphaQez [ Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:16 am ]
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hey, that actually helped me out, good post imo!

Author:	Jlax [ Tue May 04, 2010 1:03 am ]
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Great post. IF you want to change you need to accept yourself first. Actually, im going to write a big post on a book im reading here of all of the insights I came up with and ways to raise self esteem and acceptance is gonna be a big topic. But yea, you need to accept yourselves first if you want to change. The resistance to accept yourself is whats stopping your success with women.

Author:	Mrmonk [ Tue May 04, 2010 1:29 am ]
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great title

Author:	Fun [ Tue May 04, 2010 8:47 pm ]
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Part 2 To actively become someone of 'high value' you need to understand yourself first, you need understand who you are. But it needs to be honest; fuck off if your planning to lie to yourself. Your most probaly thinking "I'll give this a read but I won't change that quality about myself that makes me special. I won't admit I feel scared, nervous, pathetic, insecure; I can't think those things, that would mean I'm pathetic." And I'm not talking about the feelings you felt now, but the feelings you felt in the past. What, you think those feelings have gone !hahahahahahahaha! Consider if this is you; are you someone who has that special gift, something that makes you better than everyone else, that special skill. A skill no one else has, that makes you the best. What is it? The guitar? Are the smartest person in the world? Amazing with the computer? Amazing at a sport? Your wrong. Your not special, in fact your exceedingly normal. You're a normal guy who thinks he's special. This is in fact depression. Want to see how? Because think of the cost of having that skill. Look at your life, look at how much you're not only relying on that skill, but how you pretend thats the only thing you care about. Look at how much you pretend you don't really feel the problems you have. You have set yourself to impossible heights hoping you're not human, and each and everyday you get worse and worse. You need to take some steps to simply get what you feel off your chest. To begin then, start like this, begin admitting to yourself your problems. Begin to see your problems, accepting them- of course one of them is women, because you get way too nervous being around them, accept it. Just accpet it, in fact once a day tell a story, tell an honest story about how you felt in a situation that happened that day. For instance "God I woke up and straight away my head bloody packed with worries about today." "Why?" "Because. . ." Let your emotions out, just lose. Choose to lose, you can't keep holding back your thoughts. Then you'll see your not that bad at all. If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always got. Next, spend two weeks, just two weeks! Talking about your problems and the way you feel to others, or even in a diary. Just say how you really felt. Honesty. To anyone, that doesn't mean ramble on, just let you feeling be known, yes you're pathetic, but so everyone else, and humans are social creatures. Only then can you understand what I'm talking about. Heres a good one How can you change, if you don't know what your changing from? By accepting yourself and every thought you have, you will find out what you really want, what you've always wanted! This is the beginning of the way out- acceptance. Do the fuckin exercise.

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Author:	Darkst0rm [ Wed May 05, 2010 2:29 am ]
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Man, I'm digging this....good stuff! Larry Winget (one of the self-help gurus I'm into right now) says pretty much the same things you are saying here. 1) Diagnose your problem (I'm haven't been dating in several months, maybe too shy?) 2) Confess/admit your problem (I am too shy) 3) Own your problem, realize how it's affecting you (My shyness has made me so lonely....this sucks!) 4) Treat your problem, come up with a plan to eradicate it from your life (gonna go to Pick-Up-Artist-Forum.com and change me life!). Something else too: First self-help book I really took an interest in I read about 8 months ago was by Alan Deutshman called "Change or Die". It's the only "guru" book I've ever read cover to cover, and I know this sounds flakey as hell, but it really did change my life. Here's how the beginning goes.... Quote: Change or die. What if you were given that choice? For real. What if it weren’t just the hyperbolic rhetoric that conflates corporate performance with life or death? Not the overblown exhortations of a rabid boss, or a maniacal coach, or a slick motivational speaker, or a self-dramatizing chief executive ofﬁcer or political leader. We’re talking actual life and death now. Your own life and death. What if a well-informed, trusted authority ﬁgure said you had to make difﬁcult and enduring changes in the way you think, feel, and act? If you didn’t, your time would end soon—a lot sooner than it had to. Could you change when change really mattered? When it mattered most? "Yes", you say? Try again. "Yes?" You’re probably deluding yourself. That’s what the experts say. They say that you wouldn’t change. Don’t believe it? You want odds? Here are the odds that the experts are laying down, their scientiﬁcally studied odds: nine to one. That’s nine to one against you. How do you like those odds? Brutal stuff, huh? He and Winget both agree that people don't change unless there's enough discomfort in their lives that there's no real choice anymore except to change. That's why addicts and drunks keep relapsing until they hit "rock bottom", and why heart-bypass patients go right back to their bad lifestyle habits and end up having another heart attack. Change is painful to human beings, so the only way it will happen is if a person realizes that the pain from doing what they've always done out-weighs the pain and discomfort of change. Pain is your friend....learn from it.

Author:	johnx2 [ Wed May 05, 2010 9:36 pm ]
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good post but disagree on the whole "power fantasy" issue. its a very normal part of male psychology in young ppl to dream of being almighty and powerful and not a sign of withdrawal or excuse as such. what I find interesting is how to break that negative feedback cycle that is created by admitting you are shy/insecure. It is quite easy to argue; "I am shy insecure around a woman." "Therefore there is no point trying to talk to woman as they will realize thsi and not be attracted to me" "This leads to further rejection making u even more shy and insecure" "Hence why bother?"

Author:	Fun [ Wed May 05, 2010 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:
Part 3 Quote: good post but disagree on the whole "power fantasy" issue. its a very normal part of male psychology in young ppl to dream of being almighty and powerful and not a sign of withdrawal or excuse as such. A good point, but I'm talking about becoming dependant upon fantasizing to yourself in your bedroom, where you get your emotional gratification, where it becomes an obsession. Quote: what I find interesting is how to break that negative feedback cycle that is created by admitting you are shy/insecure. It is quite easy to argue; "I am shy insecure around a woman." "Therefore there is no point trying to talk to woman as they will realize thsi and not be attracted to me" "This leads to further rejection making u even more shy and insecure" "Hence why bother?" Because, to be honest with yourself, you can then begin to develop. So for instance, "I get so nervous around women, FUCK!" "I hate how nervous I get around them, I can't even talk to them without going red" "But I'm so fuckin bored with being alone and having no dates" "All my mates are doing fuckin fine with women" "I can't shake this nervousness" "Fuck, I'm so fuckin intimidated by them" "Two weeks and I'm still so fucking bored with not having a girl in my life, I wanna get bloody laid!" "Four months, and still no girlfriend" "Right, I'm never going to get rid of this, fuck" "Right, I'm going to have to do it now then, fuck" "Right I need to change, if I'm just honest, I'm so insecure about women. God, it makes me feel so fuckin better just admitting it. I can't ignore the fact I'm really just lonely" You need to learn to help yourself. I can't teach you how to be the best you. You need to stop brushing aside the emotions and thoughts you feel, you need to admit those feeling to yourself. Morpheus- "I can only show you path, you are one that has to walk it". So how you change has fuck all to do with me! What path you take has fuck all to do with me! But you need to fully understand why you need to change, otherwise you won't. You need to see your emotions first hand, look at the depth, under the surface. Understand and accept yourself, and your problem. And the only way of doing that is by observing how you feel in certain situations. Not just with women. Try this, tomorrow, wake up and observe yourself. just begin to notice how you feel, what your thoughts are, all of them. Start a diary, observing what you think and feel, all of it. For instance you may write "I'm writing in this diary to help myself, but I can't see how it will. In fact everytime I think that, it feels like I'm trying to trick myself and lie to myself. i'm finding really difficult to understand my own thoughts, I can't work them out. I keep thinking that this won't help me."

Author:	Invierno [ Thu May 06, 2010 4:41 am ]
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Quote: It is quite easy to argue; "I am shy insecure around a woman." "Therefore there is no point trying to talk to woman as they will realize thsi and not be attracted to me" "This leads to further rejection making u even more shy and insecure" "Hence why bother?" I think rejection doesn't make you shy. I get rejected all the time but don't become shy because of it. It does make me feel frustrated, and tired when looking back at the amount of time and effort spent on failing, but I don't think it has made me shy. I'll still walk in to the next approach and get my routine rejection for the chances to learn something and consider it a success if I learn something that helps me change things. I suppose you can overcome the shy part under the premise that you'll be improving your situation from failed attempts. Not sure tho I don't have a fear to approach problem (I have fears but my fear system isn't triggered by approaching women). I think that rejection does make me reluctant to approach because I have the sensation of certainty that time and effort will be spent with no success and no reward. At the moment approaching women feels like buying a lottery ticket, I know what my odds of winning are near zero so my willingness to spend time and effort on loser lottery tickets is limited. My willingness to walk away is obviously high for the same reason. I guess my inner problem would be that I may be a little broken by the blows, you can't blame me tho, after all, I took those blows and I keep taking them.

Author:	johnx2 [ Thu May 06, 2010 7:01 pm ]
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good point, I also meant something in the direction of what you said invierno. the benefit of woman in your life can be smaller than the amount of effort and work one needs to put in(which may be huge). Also the problem with this thing is it is alot of effort initially for rewards that only come much much later which raises motivational issues. ideally you enjoy the process of learning and flirting as such, the problem is this is one of the things that only becomes rewarding as you get good at it. initially it will just suck ,kinda like picking up a new sport and just playing against people much much much better than you is no fun.

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