PUA Forum
https://pick-up-artist-forum.com/

Are PUAs Sociopaths?
https://pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=38937		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  SeanMessenger [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Are PUAs Sociopaths?
When you see that girl that you know you HAVE to meet...
Or you'll always wonder, "what if?"...

When you see that girl that stirs something inside, beyond
your thoughts, past your logic, that makes you FEEL something
good, something weird, and something scary...

When you see that girl you've been wanting to kiss since
you were old enough to want to kiss girls...


Don't. Hide. Your. Fear.

You know what they call people that have the ability to shut
down their fear and shut down their reaction to other people's
emotions?

PUA Gurus.

You know what else they call them?

Sociopaths.

I'm not even joking about that. Go ahead and look it up. I've
got the defintion right here:

"Sociopath: Someone whose social behavior is extremely
abnormal. Sociopaths are interested only in their personal
needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their
behavior on others."

Fight the war of PUAs vs. AFCs.

Be totally non-reactive.

Neg and disarm. Plow thru resistance.Overcome the
obstacle. Isolate the target. Destroy LMR.

And never feel emotions that lead you to depend on one
girl, your one-itis. If you do, GFTOW.


I'll let you decide what you want.

But before you choose that path, consider that there is another
way. You can be honest, and real, and courageous all at the same
time.

And here's 10 seconds that will show you how.


When you see that girl, instead of passing her by...

Walk up to her. Feel whatever you feel. Don't fight it.

And then just look at her and tell her the TRUTH:

"I really never do this, but... I saw you and I HAD to
come meet you. There's something about you I have
to get to know."

That's the truth, ruth.

It IS Hard.

It IS a Big Deal.

She is NOT just another girl.

There is something about her that is special. Why would
you deny her that by pretending it's all casual and
you don't even care if she stays or if she goes?

Why are you lying to her, and to herself.

In the words of the great Thom Yorke, "you're
so fucking special, and I wish I was special."

That's all we want. That's all she wants. That's all
you want. Just to be special in the eyes of one person
that means something to you.


So stop lying to her, and stop lying to yourself. Go do it.

Follow the path. I'll be right there with you.


Love,

Sean

P.S. If you know that Radiohead reference, please don't complete the
lyric, as it destroys the whole point I was trying to make. :)
Author:  madals [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here is a post i made a while ago with a similar point :
Quote:
Oneites! Why does it suck and why is everyone always on about getting rid of it? Its not because of what it is, its because of some of the traits many guys get when they become hooked on one women.

They get needy, clingy, anxious and dependant on the outcome. As a result, it very rarely works out because hell, those things aren’t very attractive. The amount of people who ask about oneites is staggering though, yet they always get the same answer. So why is it people keep asking the same thing over and over, if it always gets the same answer?

These people think that their case is special, this women is special, they are PASSIONATE about this women and want to do everything in their power to get her and have a great time. They feel this women is unlike any other, they are attracted to her.

Now, if you could feel those things without the negatives that normally come with it, doesn’t it seem like a good thing!

Semi-oneites! Here I go, I am going to say something that might get me shot down by people here so hard I will land somewhere last week.

I THINK ONEITES IS GOOD!

Don’t touch that reply button just yet....

Passion is what makes the difference. Remember a time when u have wanted something so bad in your life. You were passionate about it. That passion made sure you stuck to it, did the best things in your power, you took ur passion and made it into your drive. A drive to better yourself.

Now, when I look at what happens when most guys get rid of oneites they just go from girl to girl and stop themselves falling for anyone, I actually know of people who have looked across a room and seen a girl who they thought was just “wow” and didn’t open because they thought they had oneites for her. No, they didn’t. They saw a girl who they were highly attracted to, who in their mind had really high value. So why didn’t they do it? Because they used oneites as an excuse. I think to many people here use oneites as an excuse.

AA is common, how about outcome anxiety? Its a hell of a lot easier to justify to yourself that “oh it doesn’t matter, I was disconnected from the outcome so I don’t care”. If you go after that girl who you are passionate about and don’t get the outcome you want, your going to feel crap. Because you lost something you wanted. Sure, you can never go after that sort of women and therefore never feel bad, but will you feel the best you can? Will you feel passion for what you do? Its no different to someone saying “ah she’s talking – it would be rude to open her”.

Get passionate about PU, to do that, have a passion for your targets. Get semi-oneites. However, remember what all the shit things are with oneites, being needy etc etc. Cut them out, use what you know to get what you really want. If it doesn’t go well, use that passion to make urself better, use it as your drive to improve.
I totally agree with this, if you dont feel for what you do how is it any different to going to work and just DOING it because you need to?
Personally I would rather stay single than go after i girl i was rather indifferent too.
Author:  SeanMessenger [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Personally I would rather stay single than go after i girl i was rather indifferent too.
Preach on, brother. Preach!
Author:  Fin [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
I love you guys!!! :lol:

Their are two things that wierd me out in this community and that is...

1. The notion of "Practising".

2. Pretending or becoming emotionally detached to the interactions you have with those around you.

The whole, *gets blown out* "ah ah ah ah! That doesn't matter to me at all"

It should do, they just threw water over you and told you to fuck off. If you are emotionally indifferent to that re-action then you have issues.

Human Beings are emotional we cannot ignore this, it can't be suppressed it can't be fought.

Sure if we try we may suceed at first, but in the long haul, the ignorance of our internal state will fuck with our heads far longer than you think it would.

Being attracted to someone is sexy, learning to aknowledge and come to terms with that is about the most sexual thing you can do. Nothing speaks bravery than just coming to terms with your feelings.
Author:  Superunknown [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think I am your new disciple, Sean. This pretty much goes against what most other PUAs will have you believe. But at the same time you present us with reason that you will still get what you want, and you'll enjoy it more.

Not to mention the fact that in order to become like the "great" PUAs, to get to the point where I can blaze through life as a fearless wall of armor-plated testacles, it seems like I have to isolate myself on a mountain top for three months, locked in deep meditation and fighting my inner demons.


(or am I completely missunderstanding what you're saying?)
Author:  SeanMessenger [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I think I am your new disciple, Sean. This pretty much goes against what most other PUAs will have you believe. But at the same time you present us with reason that you will still get what you want, and you'll enjoy it more.

Not to mention the fact that in order to become like the "great" PUAs, to get to the point where I can blaze through life as a fearless wall of armor-plated testacles, it seems like I have to isolate myself on a mountain top for three months, locked in deep meditation and fighting my inner demons.


(or am I completely missunderstanding what you're saying?)
not to mention that those "great" PUAs are full of shit, and terrified of going for the thing that all humans need, which is Love and Understanding of ourselves exactly as we are.

And I will take on any disciple with the good taste to use a Soundgarden reference for his screen name. Spread the word!

:)
Author:  Superunknown [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Just for the record, I DID get that Radiohead reference :lol:
Author:  stevo91 [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
great post sean :D its guys like u and johnny soporno why the community still really interest me.
I really find it alot better just telling the truth and being yourself then useing some m3 bullshit step by step get laid in 3 quick steps plan.
Author:  madals [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Human Beings are emotional we cannot ignore this, it can't be suppressed it can't be fought.
To communicate sucessfully in a social situation you have to communicate emotionally. The best stories are the ones which tell you how they felt, what they experienced etc etc.
Author:  Chief [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
PUAs are not sociopaths...

There's a little something in the seduction community we like to call "leave her better than you found her." That's not selfish.

A real PUA faces his fears like a man. He is the embodiment of COURAGE because he does not hide from what he fears; instead he recognizes that "the comfort zone is enemy territory" and pushes himself past that comfort zone.

To become a sociopath one must eliminate his feelings of fear and such by completely desensitizing himself from feeling. To become a PUA, however, one must accept BOTH pain and pleasure in his life because they are "inextricably linked like night and day" as you once said, Sean. :)

Let's redefine the "PUA" in that positive direction rather than trying to "destroy the community" lol. It's like helping to clean to pool everyone is swimming in rather than abandoning or demolishing it.
Author:  Jav [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:28 am ]
Post subject: 
I have not many rules that I live by. Being honest is one of them tho.
Even if I use game I will always explain to her why and how.
Author:  Chief [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Hobbit - You are citing psychology that has researched influence and obedience, not sociopath-related topics.

In regards to your critique on the community, though...

The seduction community has been heavily inundated with Authorization, Routinization, and Dehumanization because of marketing. PUA companies use these tools to sell their information and compete with other schools. So, I argue that you are only attacking the PUA market and not the community itself. While the backbone of any capitalistic market can become corrupted by atrocities, I believe that the community, on the other hand, can teach great values that steer away from the bullshit that makes someone susceptible to "brainwash."

The pickup ARTIST does not follow orders from a guru. He takes all information with a grain of salt and thinks for himself so that he won't be subject to societal brainwashing.

He also understands that seduction is a circular process that ultimately escapes routine. Seduction becomes a process of being, not doing.

He also understands that women are beautiful creations of nature and that all humans are just that: human. Whether or not he uses terminology like "HB," he seems them all for the glorious feminine essence they are. He knows that they are the yin to his yang. He does not think of them in any dehumanized manner.

Nowadays I see more and more teachers and students of the seduction community waking up to values like these.

A pickup artist is an artist like any other, and all students of the arts ultimately strive to achieve the ability to express themselves and exercise their creativity. Someone may just go through the motions of an art, but that doesn't make them an artist. In the same sense I argue that anyone who follows a structured routine that someone else came up with while following a guru's word dogmatically, and at the same time not even seeing his target audience as human beings to communicate his expressions to, is no pickup ARTIST. He's just a cover band with no real talent.
Author:  Artax [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
A psychologist by the name of Kelmen writes of the process by which soldiers are able to commit atrocities to civilians. This comes from analysis of Mylai, Stanford Prison Experiment, Haddith, and other such events. He breaks the process down to three things:

1) Authorization
Once your following an order or directions from a superior, your no longer responsible (in your mind) for the actions. This comes also from being trained not to question those above you.

2) Routinization
Thinking about the job in steps, rather than the full job. Also involves going out and practicing or using your skill set, making it routine.

3) Dehuminzation
This is obvious. Once they are labeled differently, it places the people outside of your moral community. This allows you to do evils to them and not feel like a bad person.


Now think of PUA.

1) Authorization
Following orders from a superior guru. Your not responsible for the actions, its society brainwashing that makes you act that way anyway. It's AFC to act otherwise.


2) Routinization
M3 model. Sarging. Negging.


3) Dehuminzation
HB. Set. SHB. UG.



You decide if PUA flawed structurally in this aspect of 'sociopath' activity.
1) There are many guru's and not all are wrong to follow. I love my Mom and Dad, but in this area their advice hasn't helped much. I listen to those who have propped up this argument, but I don't see it as valid. I see those who try to "neg" those they don't agree with as a little divisive, when what they should be doing is helping us to help ourselves. This is wasted energy for egos sake. I know what you hope to accomplish, but you can't change something by putting the full force of your will and passion into fighting it. The only thing you can really change is yourself.

2) Listen to them, see if they're interested in you, show you're interested in them, tell stories, be social, break rapport, be a sexually confident person. I did a good number of these things before I started in the community, just not in any way that helped me in getting girls. BTW this is essentially a reframe of the M3 model if it was lost on you. It's all a matter of perspective.

3) Sexy babes, hot chickas, or just plain doable. Any way you look at it it's objectifying (i.e., dehumanizing), but it's also human nature and women do it just as much as men. They may be a little less vocal or crass about it, but the judgment is just as apparent. It happens whether you want it to or not despite what all the equality zealots would have you think. Why, because it's human nature to judge. Too hot, too cold, too short, too tall, too soft, too hard, too big, too small, too desperate and needy, too hot to pass up, it's what we do ... we judge.

I'm not saying I like the way so many in the community are doing things, but I don't see how we can help each other by tearing each other apart. It's a moot point anyhow since those who are wrong will never admit it even if they somehow recognize it, which they probably won't no matter how deeply their face is buried in it.

Just like Joshua said in the movie Wargames. "An interesting game professor. The only winning move is not to play."
Author:  Fin [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:48 am ]
Post subject: 
What Hobbit has posted up, (I believe thats three of the five steps to tyranny?)

Although not entirely valid to the thread, does highlight the "detached" attitudes some PUA's can hold towards others, especially women.

HB is just like calling them hotttie, yes. But.. when you call some an HB it's no longer a praise or a compliment, it's just a statistic to go in your next lay report.

People can give the "no true scotsman" argument all they want, but fact is their are some people with some messed up views in this community. Luckily I've been noticing a shift and gives hope.

I will also point out that this trend of starting threads like "THIS COMMUNITY IS EHICALLY FUCKED" however inciteful and needed; is beginning to look like populist politics.

In other words am i the only one who thinks that some people are just using the above slogan to change things for the better, or are they just jumping on the bandwagon?
Author:  kasabi [ Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
"I really never do this, but... I saw you and I HAD to
come meet you. There's something about you I have
to get to know."
First off . . . you probably do "THIS" often . . . you definitely teach other guys to "DO THIS" often. (You're already beginning with a lie)

Secondly, that "something" you have to get to know after staring at any piece of hot ass for a few seconds is her vagina up close and personal. Otherwise, you'd spread that oozy cheesy "I'm an innocent nice boy version of a pick up artist" line equally to both uglies and hot chicks. Do you do this?

Maybe I'm just a cold hearted bastard or maybe I truly am a psychopath . . . But I haven't felt that oozing love at first sight non-sense since my third grade teacher greeted us in her mini-skirt my first day in grade school in that new town school. Actually, strike that. Even back then, I am quite sure that I realized rather quickly that she was a hot piece of tail when I felt that stirring in my loins.

To truly feel those, "I really want to get to know you better" emotions, wouldn't you really need KNOW her a bit in the first place? Wouldn't you actually need to converse with her? . . . Perhaps through a few dates? After that if you want to tell her, "Wow . . . I really want to get to know her better." - Well, damn that would be somewhat believable.

I mean seriously . . . let's start really telling the truth. What exactly is that "special something" you'd like to get to know better from a girl you eye balled for 5 seconds?

It's cute . . . but in my opinion, the "I just had to get to know you better" is no better or worse than any other canned pick up lie you see written all over this forum. It's certainly worse than "Nice shoes sister!" (Because, hey, I NEVER compliment shoes unless I really think they're nice)

Do you really want guys to stop lying? Well here are some things you'll hear from our hormone crazed members of this forum . . .

"Holy shit, I'm thinking about how you would look while those fat lips of yours are wrapped around my cock but what I'm really wandering is do you swallow or spit?"

"I've seen you walk around here looking for tail so I'm quite sure you're an easy piece of tail so I'll chat you up first. Who knows? After I fuck you, I might even like you. So you wanna fuck or not?"

"Fuck, every time you bend over I'm thinking about shoving my cock deep in your ass."

Lastly . . . what fears? Fears over communicating with other people IS the unnatural state. Fear is the illness that society gifts you at birth to push and pull you at will until the day you die. So "shutting" down fears isn't really the correct term. In reality, the goal is to "remove" the crap that was tossed to you(without your consensus) as you were growing up.

To remove those "fears" is to be re-born. . . it's to truly find yourself and to be one with it. To be yourself without guilt or shame . . . to be proud of who you are . . . that's when you can go out and represent yourself. Fear at that point doesn't even register.

Just an opinion . . .
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/