PUA Forum :: A natural vs a Third Generation PUA

I'm a little pressed for time, so I can't read the whole thread right now, but I'd just like to give my quick 2 cents.

You mentioned that just because they are naturally good with women, doesn't mean that they are happy and well rounded people. Although this is the IDEAL outcome for a PUA, whether 3rd generation or otherwise, I have to say that I see just as many, if not MORE unhappy PUAs around, because they put so much emphasis on being able to pick up women. Not all do and they're what we hope men become, but many think the only reason to be here is to learn to get with women and if they aren't doing that, then their lives aren't fulfilled. There's also a lot of men that go about learning the skills in order to be able to manipulate women and aren't particularly enviable people, or anyone I'd care to associate with.

Just cause you want PUAs to be great people, doesn't make it so. Just because we have an ideal in mind, doesn't mean other people subscribe to it. Just because we think of ourselves as being righteous and good people, doesn't always make it true.

That being said, I wish I could remember the line from fight club, because I DO see some of the best men and women around the world, here in the community; men and women that have dedicated themselves to becoming the best they can be, which is what makes me truly respect a person, regardless of where they are currently at in life/skill. We work towards that ideal of being better, but don't allow yourself to be fooled into believing we have already attained that goal just because we value it so much and hold it in highest regards. We continually strive to better ourselves, yet that doesn't mean we are better than others.

As a final note, just because I often sound like I am preaching from a soapbox, doesn't mean I believe I am any better than the people I preach to. I speak my beliefs and my ideals, yet I know I am still a flawed creature and have far to travel before I have attained what I hope one day to achieve.

Author:	Locke [ Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:	A natural vs a Third Generation PUA
I have been hearing a lot lately that a third generation Pick Up Artist is someone who gets close to becoming a natural....since it is his entire lifestyle that is changing, not just his techniques of picking up a woman. I would like to kindly disagree and find out what everyone else thinks. A dedicated third generation pick up artist might be natural in picking up women because of his entire life becoming an object of desire by others; however, I don't see that mentality being translated to "PUA's becoming natruals." I know some naturals. Some of them are the most selfish people I have ever met. Some are extremely lonely. Some use people. Some of them are really really awesome people. However, I don't think it is fair to compare the two. Their natural ability to pick up women does not translate to being a well rounded individual with a good lifestyle. Am I just confused?

Author:	Rome0 [ Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:
I think you are right in the sense that being able to pick up girls is not EVERYTHING. Its about balance. I know some real duchebags who score all the time, but would i trade my life for theirs? fuck no. Id rather be the quality person I am and be able to attract the girls I like. The only naturals im jelous of are those who excel at everything else, including PU.

Author:	Locke [ Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:
you can say that the naturals you know are naturally well rounded? That their lifestyle is what draws in women? I think being well rounded will produce an attractive lifestyle. -A "third gen" is creating an attractive lifestyle. -A natural with an attractive lifestyle, has that. But is it realistic to say that most naturals draw in women because of their lifestyle? 22 year old pizza boys with rusting cars living with their parents...still getting laid by different women every night? Not such an attractive lifestyle. Still naturally good with women. Maybe it is all about the context; you are looking at it more broadly. Where as I see being labeled a "natural" means you are good with women. Sure, the lifestyle can be part of it...but it isn't the basis of it. Where as the basis of our growth (third generation mentality) is to become well rounded and create an appealing life - not just be good with women. A natural is not logically thinking: Hey, maybe I could work on facing my internal demons so that I can advance on the Maslow pyramid.

Author:	Locke [ Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:
And for those naturals who have taken it to that level and have decided to become more well rounded people, lets just label them second generation naturals

Author:	Locke [ Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: I have two comments to this: 1) Who are you to deem that lifestyle isn't attractive? You don't think he has interesting stories, which convey traits about him and his life from meeting so many different people? He is meeting women every night, which means he is social. You don't know how he came to his position, he may have once had a different lifestyle or environment that socialized him correctly. Don't be so quick to judge. I once had a conversation with a janitor at Tulane University in New Orleans from around midnight to 6 a.m. He introduced me to a fellow janitor who was educated and smarter than most of the people he cleaned after. But none of the students knew that. I think about that conversation before I start judging people. Don't be so quick to think I am judging janitors I don't know. I clean up peoples vomit and I used to feed old ladies steak dinners through straws...... I don't make uneducated assumptions. I make judgments from my informed and experienced perspective. Doesn't make them true to you, but it makes them accurate to me. I knew the guy and the situation - that's why I used that as an example. xfman wrote: "...or at least the future successful PUA will be more sided as naturals, with more of a lifestyle than a method..." My point is all third generation pick up artists actively work on their lifestyle. Where as the appeal of a natural isn't always on his lifestyle. It is on the fact that he is in some way, naturally attractive. It might be his lifestyle, but more often (in my experience) that isn't the case. People working to improve all aspects of their lives shouldn't be labeled as trying to become naturals. Because naturals are not actively working to improve their life; therefore, we are not striving to be them. We are working to be naturally attractive - an ATTRIBUTE we share with people who are naturally good at picking up women. I don't know. Besides your misunderstanding, I think we are basically agreeing (in different words) on the same thing.

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Author:	Rye Lee [ Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:
I'm a little pressed for time, so I can't read the whole thread right now, but I'd just like to give my quick 2 cents. You mentioned that just because they are naturally good with women, doesn't mean that they are happy and well rounded people. Although this is the IDEAL outcome for a PUA, whether 3rd generation or otherwise, I have to say that I see just as many, if not MORE unhappy PUAs around, because they put so much emphasis on being able to pick up women. Not all do and they're what we hope men become, but many think the only reason to be here is to learn to get with women and if they aren't doing that, then their lives aren't fulfilled. There's also a lot of men that go about learning the skills in order to be able to manipulate women and aren't particularly enviable people, or anyone I'd care to associate with. Just cause you want PUAs to be great people, doesn't make it so. Just because we have an ideal in mind, doesn't mean every PUA subscribes to it. Just because we think of ourselves as being righteous and good people, doesn't always make it true. That being said, I wish I could remember the line from fight club, because I DO see some of the best men and women around the world, here in the community; men and women that have dedicated themselves to becoming the best they can be, which is what makes me truly respect a person, regardless of where they are currently at in life/skill. We work towards that ideal of being better, but don't allow yourself to be fooled into believing we have already attained that goal just because we value it so much and hold it in highest regards. We continually strive to better ourselves, yet that doesn't mean we are better than others. As a final note, just because I often sound like I am preaching from a soapbox, doesn't mean I believe I am any better than the people I preach to. I speak my beliefs and my ideals, yet I know I am still a flawed creature and have far to travel before I have attained what I hope one day to achieve.

Author:	Roads [ Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:
Rye Lee is a better person than me. I say this not because I am not an awesome human being---quite the contrary, I am easily and by far the most fantastic and fascinating individual I've ever met---but because Rye has dedicated a considerable portion of his life to helping others find happiness in their lives. Men who were condemned to spend their days and nights alone due to a fear or lack of understanding of the feminine mind now find joy and pleasure in meeting beautiful women on a weekly basis. In this respect, Rye has touched the lives of many for the better, and that makes him a role model for all PUAs.

Author:	xfman [ Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:38 am ]
Post subject:
Hi Locke... Well Hobbit has talked my voice here... You are talking about naturals not being a good example of a life style, because some of them (Well the ones you know) have a lot of problems or is a bad example for everyone. I will tell you some things... First of all, realize many times women are attracted to destructive lifestyles... "...or at least the future successful PUA will be more sided as naturals, with more of a lifestyle than a method..." The future successful PUA will be a natural person... that drag women into his life because he is energetic, happy and full in every aspect of his life. I'm always talking about PUA as a lifestyle not a tool to get a quick fix or only to seduce girls. Even the things you learn can be applied in all your life, just check what are the characteristics of the "PUA LIFE PROJECT" ... "People that want to improve every aspect of life... In this project we will move women to a second place... we won't be focusing on them... they will be attracted by your NATURAL lifestyle." When I use the word natural in my posts about the third Generation, _I'm referring to the lack of methods and routines... we will become naturals because we are not faking, we are not acting, we are being natural. You say the naturals you know are alone and they are selfish and they aren't a good role model... well that happens with everything and everyone, You will find PUA that use the techniques and routines to fuck girls... that is a selfish act. It depends what you do with the things you know, and we don't want to be like a PUA that only wants to fuck and we don't want to be like the natural your talking about... We want to create a new lifestyle that will make us naturally attractive to women, and THAT in my opinion seems to be the future of this community...

Author:	Rye Lee [ Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:19 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: People working to improve all aspects of their lives shouldn't be labeled as trying to become naturals. Because naturals are not actively working to improve their life; therefore, we are not striving to be them. We are working to be naturally attractive - an ATTRIBUTE we share with people who are naturally good at picking up women. Why not call them naturals? Once they attain that level of ability, they aren't using canned material, they are just having conversations with people and saying what comes to mind, then that's basically what you are forced to call them. They aren't running rehearsed stuff, so unless we're only gonna label guys that have skill with women, yet crappy lives, as naturals, then we're really gonna have to hammer out what the term "natural" means. I personally think the whole discussion (not just this conversation, but the whole topic) has reached the point of purely mental masturbation. I recall thinking it was a good topic of discussion and one I was curious to figure out whether there was an answer to; unfortunately there is no concrete answer, it is purely speculation based upon an individual's connotative interpretation of the term, which results in a never-ending debate of the subject. Since no one can tell you that you are right or wrong, why not just decide for yourself what you want to be called, or what to call yourself? I used to call myself a "natural style PUA", then over time I realised that didn't really fit me, so now I just don't call myself anything. If you feel happy with the 3rd Gen PUA label, but not the one of a natural, then don't call yourself a natural, otherwise do so; it's really up to you and anyone that tells you you're wrong can think whatever they want, but that doesn't change what it means to you. P.S. Roads That was kind of you to say man..... I'm stealing it for my site!

Author:	Locke [ Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:08 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: I'm a little pressed for time, so I can't read the whole thread right now, but I'd just like to give my quick 2 cents. You mentioned that just because they are naturally good with women, doesn't mean that they are happy and well rounded people. Although this is the IDEAL outcome for a PUA, whether 3rd generation or otherwise, I have to say that I see just as many, if not MORE unhappy PUAs around, because they put so much emphasis on being able to pick up women. Not all do and they're what we hope men become, but many think the only reason to be here is to learn to get with women and if they aren't doing that, then their lives aren't fulfilled. There's also a lot of men that go about learning the skills in order to be able to manipulate women and aren't particularly enviable people, or anyone I'd care to associate with. Just cause you want PUAs to be great people, doesn't make it so. Just because we have an ideal in mind, doesn't mean other people subscribe to it. Just because we think of ourselves as being righteous and good people, doesn't always make it true. That being said, I wish I could remember the line from fight club, because I DO see some of the best men and women around the world, here in the community; men and women that have dedicated themselves to becoming the best they can be, which is what makes me truly respect a person, regardless of where they are currently at in life/skill. We work towards that ideal of being better, but don't allow yourself to be fooled into believing we have already attained that goal just because we value it so much and hold it in highest regards. We continually strive to better ourselves, yet that doesn't mean we are better than others. As a final note, just because I often sound like I am preaching from a soapbox, doesn't mean I believe I am any better than the people I preach to. I speak my beliefs and my ideals, yet I know I am still a flawed creature and have far to travel before I have attained what I hope one day to achieve. Well spoken Rye!

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