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assertiveness and persistence vs neediness and desperation
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Author:  ConspiracyTheory [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  assertiveness and persistence vs neediness and desperation
i'm realizing i'm not being assertive enough in some pick ups, but how can you be assertive without seeming needy? they almost seem synonymous to me. so i'd appreciate if some real PUAs can explain the difference.

it is my natural attitude to not push or chase girls, it's not like i'm putting on an act and going overboard with it. but i've seen recently that i've let many get away that shouldn't have. for example check out my blog, the AMOG post
Author:  bahumbug [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
you won't come off as needy if your gaming her right.

if the sarge is going well you can tell that she wants to continue speaking with you. that's when you tell her you have to go and then ask for her #. nothing needy about that.
Author:  Fin [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think he's refering to bigger things like isolation.

I find it's body laungauge; as long as you stay laid back and look in control it should come off as assertiveness.

However neediness and desperation is borne out of panic in loosing the target.

So I'd advise that when she gives resistance like "no I can't blah " just continue down the same path (while calibrating for IOI's) and make sure that your voice tonality and facial expression along with your Body laungauge shows that her initial "rejection"; as it were, has you tottaly unphased.
Author:  Chief [ Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
This is a great question and I'm looking forward to discussing it, but right now I have to go sarge! I'll be back lol
Author:  Rye Lee [ Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:06 am ]
Post subject: 
The thing that is really gonna determine neediness vs assertiveness, is your voice tonality, although body language of course emphasizes it. A more high pitched voice is gonna come off as more needy, whereas a more low pitched is more assertive. If you speak quickly, like you're in a hurry to get everything out before she cuts you off, then you come off needy. If you speak slowly and with intent, then you seem assertive.

Your body language is going to emphasize these traits, so when you are speaking slowly, move more slowly and deliberately. If you move about rapidly, then you are seen as more reactive and not the one in control, making the decisions and the moves.

A good way to show that you are indeed assertive and persistent, but not needy, is to square up to her once you have built some attraction and comfort. Offset your bodies so that you are almost cheek to cheek, but farther apart in your upper body (chest/head) than your lower body (feet). The key is to move slowly and use your eyes and smile to seduce her. Lower your voice and increase kino while moving into seduction.

Depending on how skilled you are, the above can be done within the first 10 seconds, or after an hour or two. If she's interested, but showing resistance, it generally will melt when you do this.
Author:  Chief [ Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:55 am ]
Post subject: 
I think I figured it out.

Assertiveness and persistence = Calibrated and confident escalation

Neediness and desperation = Miscalibrated and uninformed attempt at escalation
Author:  ConspiracyTheory [ Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
good comments so far guys

from what i'm hearing then i shouldn't be afraid of coming off needy since i'm not, if i was i already would be chasing. i should be assertive just make sure i'm doing it smooth.

i'm not really loosing them to outright rejections, it always happens one of two ways:

1. most commonly, the girl(s) have to leave for whatever reason, and often even say they will come back but don't. the places i go most often are big enough that its hard to bump in to someone again. maybe i should go for the # then even though it might not be solid.

2. they get pulled away by other dudes, as in the AMOG example. and yes, i had attraction but not shit tons... maybe i need to work on that because the times i've had tons of attraction i've dealt with this by telling the AMOG "this is my girlfriend" then pouring on the kino. of course that doesn't work if the guy knows her.
Author:  Roads [ Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
good comments so far guys

from what i'm hearing then i shouldn't be afraid of coming off needy since i'm not, if i was i already would be chasing. i should be assertive just make sure i'm doing it smooth.

i'm not really loosing them to outright rejections, it always happens one of two ways:

1. most commonly, the girl(s) have to leave for whatever reason, and often even say they will come back but don't. the places i go most often are big enough that its hard to bump in to someone again. maybe i should go for the # then even though it might not be solid.

2. they get pulled away by other dudes, as in the AMOG example. and yes, i had attraction but not shit tons... maybe i need to work on that because the times i've had tons of attraction i've dealt with this by telling the AMOG "this is my girlfriend" then pouring on the kino. of course that doesn't work if the guy knows her.
1. You didn't hook the set. You didn't hook her. Interested girls rarely just leave and not return for whatever reason. Either have lots of attraction in the beginning to hook them, or lots of comfort to reassure them. The second way might land you into friend zone, but it will make this particular type of problem less common.

2. You didn't hook the set. You didn't hook her friend. Her friend doesn't necessarily have to be an AMOG. Also, it might not even be her friend, just another guy she's been eyeing while talking to you...and he's taking the opportunity to roll his dice.

If gamed correctly, your target will do something that falls under one of the three categories:

a) Hesitate and prolong the conversation a bit and give you the opportunity to number close her. She may also show hesitation in her body language when prompted by her friend to leave. This is her way of preserving her social value while testing to see if you are bold enough to go for her number (or possibly insta-date her if she's alone). This is the most common reaction to an interrupted set you've hooked.

b) Tell her friend "I'll be a minute", introduce everyone, and go back to talking to you. Almost as common, but also means a huge IOI for you. Keep in mind you'll still have to time-bridge. Do not tag along with her friends, this will lower your value. Do not ask her to tag along with you, because you've only known her for a short while and she will choose her friends over you. Exception to this is if it's really, really ON.

c) Outright ask you for your contact info, with her friend there. Almost unheard of. Takes a special kind of woman. Either you showed an extreme lack of neediness and demonstrated so much value that she's head over heels and really really wants to know you, or you showed a lack of initiative and she's assertive enough to go ahead and ask for you. Lucky SOB you.
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