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This is going all wrong
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Author:  Marco Polo [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  This is going all wrong
This will be a short :D version of a private message I wrote to one felow mPUA.

It could easily become my goodbye letter to "mainstream" PUA scene cause I am a bit fed up with all this shit. By this I don`t mean sarging, I can never get fed up with this but I am fed up by turning all this in a money making industry. It all started many years ago by guys giving each other advices how to seduce girls. They mostly weren`t naturaly talented for sarging so they were trying whatever they had in mind and they oftenly crash and burned but in the same time they were learning and sharing things which worked. It was "romantic" era where most important was to give and receive advice how to get layed.

Where are we now?

There are first mPUA`s who created a scene (Mystery, Ross, DD.......)

Then you have their former pupils who turned it more mainstream (Style, Tyler ......) and some of them

Then you their students

Then you have students of students of students .......... and so on, you got the picture?

Then after this hit roof of popularity with "VH1 Pick up artis" self called "Guru`s" are rising like mushrooms after the rain. It almost seems to me that every 1 out of 5 AFC`s who reads more then 3 pick up books, starts to write his own and after that tries to sell it for x.99 $


I am 100% that at least 40 - 60% of guys who sold at least 1 book or organised at least 1 PU seminar, totally suck on field. 100% sure.

Personally I don`t mind it. I have college degree, high income job, many (somethimes I think to many cause I don`t have time for all of them) hoby`s, big social circle, great girlfriend etc. etc. and I entered this scene out of curiosity after reading "The Game" at first, but I stayed because I found out that helping soembody with my advices feels realy good and when I receive PM with "Thanks for your help, it worked great" I am happy almost as I scored instead of the guys I helped :D

I simply can`t believe that new people so much want to make a name in PU scene. Why? You wanna be professional PUA who lives FROM pick up seminars?

Why the fuck for? I`ll tell you why! Because, even most "Guru`s" preach opposite (especially new breed of "Guru`s" - internet seducers - keyboard warriors), it is way more easier to become PU "guru" who will earn for living selling bullshit to poor AFC`s, then to create great lifestyle by finishing college, getting a job, work hard to earn big money, go to a gym for few years to develop Alpha male body, being cool to people around you and creating healthy, well balanced social circle and so on.....


Guys/newbs/AFC`s/friends

You can go by an easier but way more fragile path. Try to read as many PU books, visit as many PU seminars, remember as many PU lines, buy as many hats for peacocking, paint your nails, whatever.... Thats fine. It will work shortly, no doubt about that. But what after that? Where will you be in few years if you neglect other areas of life, if you become a social robot like Style said?

Or you can put all your efforts in school, job, friends, workout (your body should be your temple), you can BECOME naturaly attractive, because you won`t have to pretend to be an Alpha male and seducer, you will BE all that.

I am not saying PU scene is fraud. It most definitely isn`t. It is a real deal. But what I am saying is basically this.: If you read only one good PU book, it`s almost like you`v read 99% of all written PU stuff.

BASICS ARE THE SAME! Everything else is ripping off!



At the end, I hope I didn`t offend anyone, it wasn`t purpose of this post. I just wanted to state the obvious and to help our new friends who are just entering the community.


But, since human nature hates critique I expect lot of flames so let the games begin!


Marco
Author:  saqchek [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Only two PUA books I've bought were "The Game" (for entertainment) and "Mystery's Venusian Arts Handbook". You can get free copies of Magic Bullets, David Shade's work, and much much more. Learn to bit torrent my friend. It really shouldn't cost you anything to be honest with you.
Author:  xxIcexx [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
I understand your view on this subject, I am not going to bash you, but I am going to explain how my views differ.

Okay so you said you learn all of the qualities and forget all the other aspects of your life that make you naturally successful. True unless you have your priorities in line from the get go. I know for a fact that my schooling comes first, everything else is a second to that because that is what is going to determine the rest of my life. So pickup isnt really a hobby, its more of a lifestyle so to speak. All that peacocking, I do not think it is necessary at all to be in pickup, I think thats something to do to get your foot in the door and to be recognized. I had Style before i entered the community and it will continue to grow without the top hats and ties, rings and nail paint. None of that is necessary as long as I present myself well with good body language, posture, and voice tone.

Also in regards to just picking up women, some will agree that that is only one aspect to this game. It can effect other areas in life as well. In pickup you "learn" how to disarm targets, befriend people, and talk to strangers without thinking twice. You are almost a salesman in a sense, you have to get people to trust you and you are selling them that you are a good guy, but different from the rest of these douche bags that are trying to pickup these girls friends. So anyway, I have a job interview, they want to know why I am suitable for this job and different than any other of those guys coming in for an interview. I can take the boring old approach of I am a hard worker, I am dedicated, or you can go and use your pick up message and display DHV qualities through stories which alot of people do not know how to do without bragging.

Thats just one example. How about when you have a hot date and you have to meet the parents. Thats a totally different ball park than befriending the obstacle. But if you know how to handle different situations, these qualities that you either learn or already have can only help you in the long run.

Who cares if some random guy wants to make a seminar, if he "fools" the people into coming, he is a great salesman, and pickup made him successful in selling his approach. Isnt that really the big picture as far as this is concerned?
Author:  3 hands [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
I speedread most of it, but I agree with what I've read. You need to ask yourself: Will learning to teach all of this give me the lifestyle that I want? For me it was easy. Yes, It will give me the lifestyle that I want if I mentor 2-3 guys for free in my spair time. Because it will train me for my job when I'm done with school, Which is going to be communication, marketing and technical stuff. Mentoring will advance my skills so that I'll have an easier time later.

And you know what? I'm not going on with this forever! I will quit this as soon as I outgrow teaching. Some time in the near future I will need to put more time into other activities. And the first thing I'm dropping is the mentoring.

As for all the pickup guru's, I just listen to David D and pickup101 basically because I just like how natural they seem. They keep it in words I can understand and actually seem to teach something. (also I just love how David D can describe important aspects of books in a fast, understandable way)

An yea I totally agree with the natural thing. I myself try to work on natural things. for example I see things like, Learning how to plan my day and time better, as improving my game. It improves me in more way then the obvious, it gives me more time to spend meeting women.

Have no idea how much I stayed on topic here, but I don't care I'm not deleting this :P
Author:  Arkitekt [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
In the grand scheme of things it's all about balancing your life... balancing
Friends, Family, and Finance (and Fu**ing while we're on "F" words). :)
Doesn't Mystery write about that in the VAH?

If you want to make teaching guys how to meet women your job, that's
fine in my book. I just think you need to have the rest of your life sorted
out first. If you're not happy in the Family department, it affects how you
perform in the other areas and vise-versa.

A lot of us get into picking up women because it is one of the biggest
things we are missing in our lives. What a lot of us don't realize is that
it's not the only thing we're missing nor the biggest... and that
a woman is not going to fix everything just like money will not fix
everything.

Focus on other things first if you have to, cause most times the rest will just fall into place.
Author:  slight [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Im sure you could make money too if you tried.

It depends on your view of right and wrong ...
Author:  RSDSkittles [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Marco. Greatest post I read so far.
:!:
Author:  Roads [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: This is going all wrong
Quote:
This will be a short :D version of a private message I wrote to one felow mPUA.

It could easily become my goodbye letter to "mainstream" PUA scene cause I am a bit fed up with all this shit. By this I don`t mean sarging, I can never get fed up with this but I am fed up by turning all this in a money making industry. It all started many years ago by guys giving each other advices how to seduce girls. They mostly weren`t naturaly talented for sarging so they were trying whatever they had in mind and they oftenly crash and burned but in the same time they were learning and sharing things which worked. It was "romantic" era where most important was to give and receive advice how to get layed.

Where are we now?

There are first mPUA`s who created a scene (Mystery, Ross, DD.......)

Then you have their former pupils who turned it more mainstream (Style, Tyler ......) and some of them

Then you their students

Then you have students of students of students .......... and so on, you got the picture?

Then after this hit roof of popularity with "VH1 Pick up artis" self called "Guru`s" are rising like mushrooms after the rain. It almost seems to me that every 1 out of 5 AFC`s who reads more then 3 pick up books, starts to write his own and after that tries to sell it for x.99 $


I am 100% that at least 40 - 60% of guys who sold at least 1 book or organised at least 1 PU seminar, totally suck on field. 100% sure.

Personally I don`t mind it. I have college degree, high income job, many (somethimes I think to many cause I don`t have time for all of them) hoby`s, big social circle, great girlfriend etc. etc. and I entered this scene out of curiosity after reading "The Game" at first, but I stayed because I found out that helping soembody with my advices feels realy good and when I receive PM with "Thanks for your help, it worked great" I am happy almost as I scored instead of the guys I helped :D

I simply can`t believe that new people so much want to make a name in PU scene. Why? You wanna be professional PUA who lives FROM pick up seminars?

Why the fuck for? I`ll tell you why! Because, even most "Guru`s" preach opposite (especially new breed of "Guru`s" - internet seducers - keyboard warriors), it is way more easier to become PU "guru" who will earn for living selling bullshit to poor AFC`s, then to create great lifestyle by finishing college, getting a job, work hard to earn big money, go to a gym for few years to develop Alpha male body, being cool to people around you and creating healthy, well balanced social circle and so on.....


Guys/newbs/AFC`s/friends

You can go by an easier but way more fragile path. Try to read as many PU books, visit as many PU seminars, remember as many PU lines, buy as many hats for peacocking, paint your nails, whatever.... Thats fine. It will work shortly, no doubt about that. But what after that? Where will you be in few years if you neglect other areas of life, if you become a social robot like Style said?

Or you can put all your efforts in school, job, friends, workout (your body should be your temple), you can BECOME naturaly attractive, because you won`t have to pretend to be an Alpha male and seducer, you will BE all that.

I am not saying PU scene is fraud. It most definitely isn`t. It is a real deal. But what I am saying is basically this.: If you read only one good PU book, it`s almost like you`v read 99% of all written PU stuff.

BASICS ARE THE SAME! Everything else is ripping off!



At the end, I hope I didn`t offend anyone, it wasn`t purpose of this post. I just wanted to state the obvious and to help our new friends who are just entering the community.


But, since human nature hates critique I expect lot of flames so let the games begin!


Marco
Valid points. Another parallel to martial arts: basics are the same, but different styles use different techniques specifically adapted to that style. So it is entirely possible for new styles to evolve, and although new PUA books are popping up like Internet startup companies, they won't necessarily burst the pickup bubble.
Author:  LuckyMan [ Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
I especially agree on what you said about areas of your life being affected by being to paranoid about this stuff.

In Mystery Method, mystery talked about the areas of life being health, wealth, and relationships.

and Anthony robbins talks about how the areas of life are physical, spiritual, emotional, career, family and financial. He says that sometimes when you try to hard to fill in one area, which in this case is family, you may suffer or lack in your career and financial happiness. you have to be able to fill in 100% of everything to be living a great, happy life. right now my average is about 67%. I have a great life, in some of my areas, but other of my areas are lacking, especially school. and this is mainly because of me being to interested in girls. in fact, i should be doing in homework instead of typing on this forum, so i guess i should go do that right now.

but anyways think about that.
Author:  STEREO [ Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  man it went so bad tonight
guys, NEVER get drunk and try to game. It's a terrible game plan and you'll end up saying something stupid.

I was trying the material out in the field for the first time tonight (thursday night/ friday morning) and I fucked up royally. Let me tell you what happened.

I successfully opened a three set (2 girls, 1 guy) with the dental floss opener, and proceeded into a fucking interview with the asian chick. Her friend comes over and bluntly asked "Are you hitting on my friend?" and this being my first time I faltered and said "No, she's hitting on me."

BITCH: "I don't think so. You see this is my GF and blah blah blah...and I don't want to see you taking her away from me."

I fucked up and blanked on what to say next

BITCH: "Does that make you uncomfortable knowing that we're like that" (GF/GF)?

then i mentioned 2girls1cup and got shut out immediately. "GROSS!!!"

I kicked myself for this and it has been a true learning experience for me. Should have done the best friends test or something. any ideas, community? :cry:
Author:  Marco Polo [ Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Learn to bit torrent my friend. It really shouldn't cost you anything to be honest with you.

hahahaha, you shoud re-read my post to get the essence of it but anyway, thanks for the advice1 :lol:
Author:  Marco Polo [ Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I understand your view on this subject, I am not going to bash you, but I am going to explain how my views differ.

Okay so you said you learn all of the qualities and forget all the other aspects of your life that make you naturally successful. True unless you have your priorities in line from the get go. I know for a fact that my schooling comes first, everything else is a second to that because that is what is going to determine the rest of my life. So pickup isnt really a hobby, its more of a lifestyle so to speak. All that peacocking, I do not think it is necessary at all to be in pickup, I think thats something to do to get your foot in the door and to be recognized. I had Style before i entered the community and it will continue to grow without the top hats and ties, rings and nail paint. None of that is necessary as long as I present myself well with good body language, posture, and voice tone.

Also in regards to just picking up women, some will agree that that is only one aspect to this game. It can effect other areas in life as well. In pickup you "learn" how to disarm targets, befriend people, and talk to strangers without thinking twice. You are almost a salesman in a sense, you have to get people to trust you and you are selling them that you are a good guy, but different from the rest of these douche bags that are trying to pickup these girls friends. So anyway, I have a job interview, they want to know why I am suitable for this job and different than any other of those guys coming in for an interview. I can take the boring old approach of I am a hard worker, I am dedicated, or you can go and use your pick up message and display DHV qualities through stories which alot of people do not know how to do without bragging.

Thats just one example. How about when you have a hot date and you have to meet the parents. Thats a totally different ball park than befriending the obstacle. But if you know how to handle different situations, these qualities that you either learn or already have can only help you in the long run.

Who cares if some random guy wants to make a seminar, if he "fools" the people into coming, he is a great salesman, and pickup made him successful in selling his approach. Isnt that really the big picture as far as this is concerned?
I agree with almost your whole post besides the bolded part so I will answer only that.
Quote:
Who cares if some random guy wants to make a seminar, if he "fools" the people into coming, he is a great salesman, and pickup made him successful in selling his approach.
Well, for what is worth, I care. This guy will be succesfull for himself because he will earn a money but he will also make few miserable AFC`s even more miserable cause he can`t teach them shit.
Quote:
Isnt that really the big picture as far as this is concerned?
As it seems recently that IS becoming a big picture of current scene and I find it wrong and that was my motivation for writing a post and opening this topic.
Author:  Marco Polo [ Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I speedread most of it, but I agree with what I've read. You need to ask yourself: Will learning to teach all of this give me the lifestyle that I want? For me it was easy. Yes, It will give me the lifestyle that I want if I mentor 2-3 guys for free in my spair time. Because it will train me for my job when I'm done with school, Which is going to be communication, marketing and technical stuff. Mentoring will advance my skills so that I'll have an easier time later.
:P
Quote:
if I mentor 2-3 guys for free in my spair time
FOR FREE, those are the key words. You are trying to master your skills and to help others and that is exactly what I am saying this whole scene should be about.

Quote:
Because it will train me for my job when I'm done with school, Which is going to be communication, marketing
Hehe, those are areas in which I also operate and earn money. Good choice future colegue! :wink:
Author:  Marco Polo [ Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Im sure you could make money too if you tried.

It depends on your view of right and wrong ...

I could but I don`t want to. I earn very nice money with my "normal" job, and, as I menthioned have many friends, hobby`s, LTR and I certainly don`t have time for this.

It`s enough for me to help somebody, in private or on the forums, FOR FREE and to receive a simple thank you. It feels great!
Author:  Marco Polo [ Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:58 am ]
Post subject: 
To all others who supported my post, thank you!

I was expecting lot of flaming for being honest about this whole thing but support of you only proved to me that I am on a right track and I am not alone!

Marco
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