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I just dont understand MID-GAME!
https://pick-up-artist-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=134&t=98377
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Author:  LiorD [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  I just dont understand MID-GAME!

im very new to PU and ive been traveling around the forum at the last couple of days and i found some openers i like and body language articles etc,

but i dont understand how do i develop my mid game? i read a lot of topics and couldnt get something that realy helped me...


let's say im talking to this fine girl what can i tell her? how do i lead the conversation?

can some1 help me by giving me a list of articles i should read in order to improve my mid game?


thanks guys :D

Author:  mickeyjackson21 [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:58 pm ]
Post subject: 

hey man. most people think that the opener is the most important part of PU. but it is good that you understand the importance of transitioning from the opener to midgame which is the most challenging part, but accomplishable.

here are some notes on attraction, building rapport, and number closing which might be of interest to you. enjoy.

one thing you should know is when to tease (push pull technique, negging etc). they should only be used if ur target is a 7.5 or above (or the girls who think they are 7.5 or above whereas in actual fact they are not). if you were to tease a girl below that rating, you would end of hurting and insulting them. in exclaimer for using negging and teasing is that one should positively validate their target before they negatively validate them. the reason to do it in this way is because one must hook their target in order to get their attention. so after the positive validation (for a set who is +7.5) you negatively validate them (tease, push) in order to put yourself at a higher level than them because at the beginning they are higher than you. the main reason why it is good to use negging is to challenge the ego of a girl of high calibre which is something that a typical afc does not do. and by doing this, it shows that u r a man that has high standards and does not go for just any girl and this will make the girl more interested and it will compel her to work harder to gain your approval because you have showed disinterest in her, told her that she does not fit your standards (negative validation). girls always want the guys that is surrounded by women and guys which are difficult to get, its a challenge for women to go after those guys.

building rapport is a very interesting process. in order to build a great emotional connection one must choose to talk about things which have deep emotional content. it does not matter what the girl does or likes, you can connect with her even if you have dissimilar interests. as you know all occupations and hobbies are completely different in their complexity, principles and structure, but there is one thing which all of them have in common/share "EMOTIONS". one must be empathetic and show a girl that u understand why she chose to do that job or hobbie by expressing the emotions that one feels when doing that activity, it shows that you're really trying to get to know her, and she will think "wow this is a great guy to talk to, he's making an effort to understand me, but wait, i dont know anything about him" and this will compel her to ask you questions and u can freely express yourself how ever much u want as long as u express urself passionately and positively. all the men dont do this at all and do not understand how much empathy is a powerful force and openly allow themselves to be perceived to see a girl superficially. you can use the concept of 'rapport' to ur advantage as well.

in order for you to build greater rapport with her, get used to asking more open-ended questions e.g. "what have you been up to?" or "What did u get up to today?", my one: "What monkey business did u get up to today?". dont use questions like "wats up hun?", thats a closed-ended question which the girl would simply answer and she wont give u much material to work on in order to reach the hook point.

and connect on her answers in a positive way. dont be afraid to tease her as well. dont be afraid to create impact. when telling a girl about a situation that happened to u on that day or in the week, give more details about it, women love details. it is also good to read the local news paper, women are usually very aware what happens in the world, u should as well. u can get her point of view on something in the news (nothing to do with which celebrity had sex with who) e.g. political, environmental, sociological etc and then she would ask you what u think and you can manipulate the conversation which can lead anywhere u want.

another way u can have an "endless conversation" is the principle of "Question, statement, Question, statement, Q, S, Q, S etc". so u ask an open question, receive the answer, and then make a statement about the last thing she said in order to ask a deeper question. this process can go round in a circle, it can go on for ages.

after you have the girl attracted to you and built rapport, here's how to make sure that you can get a definite number close and afterwards ensure a date in the future.

the way to ask a girl out is by 'offering' not asking permission, never ask "Do you want to go out tonight?" or "will you go out with me?" or "so what time are you free tomorrow?". They are all questions which AFCs do. they make a guy sound needy, desperate, dependent on doing something with her.

so before offering a date, let her know how busy and sociable you are. girls want guys who are difficult to get. usually in rapport with girls, to make sure she does not flake on u after the first meeting, there's a pua principle called 'seeding'. this is when u in plant an invitation in the conversation with her but u havent actually invited her. for example, you could say that "im thinking of going to this really cool bar sometime next week which i heard about". now usually when a guy mentions to a girl about going to a bar, club or party that u know, the girl will always expects the guy to automatically invite her. but what you would do is just to mention the party or the bar and continue on the conversation. this will catch the girl off guard and the girl will be thinking "hey, this guy is pretty cool (depending on the attraction and rapport), but he has just mentioned this party but why is he not asking me out?". she will think this and will be more compelled and desperate for you to ask her and she realises that she needs to work in order to get the invitation. women want to go to things that are hard to get into, exclusive and even more if they are told they cant go. people always want to go to things when they have been told they cant go. sounds so forbiden and interesting.

dont be in the position to be waiting for a girl to call you, women are lazy or busy but definitely unreliable. you make the contact. but when u contact, dont sound like you are too eager to see her, bad sign to show that ur desperate. in between texting a girl, act like u dont care if she ever replies back. i know it sounds crazy, but it does not feel good waiting, checking ur phone every so often seeing if the girl replies. have the frame of mind that u dont care about a reply, then u will feel less anxious, and more focused on ur game.

Hope that i have helped. happy gaming dude

Author:  RePete [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:55 pm ]
Post subject: 

Awesome advice mickey, Greatly appreciated

Author:  LiorD [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:32 pm ]
Post subject: 

Wow thank bro you realy realy helped me !

Author:  Ownsick [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:54 pm ]
Post subject: 

Helped..

STill I have to search if there are routines to estabilish rapport.

I guess DHV routines may do the trick?

Author:  THE COWBOY [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Fantastic Reply Mickey

Fantastic Stuff Mickey...mid game is the art.

Could you let me know if how to learn the following:

1. Moving Conversation based on her representation of the world.

2. What to do when she wants to flirt with you? If it's early on in the pick and in a later stage. I completely get off guard on this...

3. How Do I direct a conversation topic? How Do I make her talk more....and gather content from their?

Thanks

Cowboy

Author:  mickeyjackson21 [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:35 pm ]
Post subject: 

Thanks guys for liking my post, really appreciate it.

Hey THE COWBOY. I can't exactly help you on the first question because i don't understand it. you have to elaborate what you mean by it more explicitly.

but the answers to your other questions are as follows. for question 2, if the girl flirts then you obviously flirt back and keep that fire going. i hope that you are aware of what constitutes flirting. flirting consists of the following techniques which build attraction i.e. positive and negative validation (push pull technique), qualification, negging, and challenging. even though you're having fun with the flirting, you must stay 100% alert at all times and be aware of the situation for any dynamic change in the conditions.

for question 3 is very simple. use the principles that i explained about QSQS, empathy. but the main drive is using open-ended questions. the more you use open-ended questions, the girl will give you many hook points for you to choose which one you can use the best to your advantage and go in any direction you want. with the correct path to take of the content of the hooks presented to you, you can make a girl experience any emotion you want. this is better than what AFCs do with closed-ended questions which only give you single-word answers with material you cannot use and then you wont be able to connect with her and build rapport. The QSQS also plays a big part and can make the interaction last for couple of mins, even hours. the other night i had a convo with an HB7.5 which lasted for 3.5 hours lol. As alot of puas say that you have to do most of the talking in the 1st min of the interaction to make them comfortable, but in the middle they'll talk to you more and be more comfortable. the secret behind making the girl talk more is by you talking less than her. this also enables you to practice being a good listener which i have had many people tell me because i make the people talk more because of the choice of open-ended questions i used.

hope that i have helped. happy gaming dude ;-)

Author:  *FlaiR* [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:40 pm ]
Post subject: 

Quote:
hey man. most people think that the opener is the most important part of PU. but it is good that you understand the importance of transitioning from the opener to midgame which is the most challenging part, but accomplishable.

here are some notes on attraction, building rapport, and number closing which might be of interest to you. enjoy.

one thing you should know is when to tease (push pull technique, negging etc). they should only be used if ur target is a 7.5 or above (or the girls who think they are 7.5 or above whereas in actual fact they are not). if you were to tease a girl below that rating, you would end of hurting and insulting them. in exclaimer for using negging and teasing is that one should positively validate their target before they negatively validate them. the reason to do it in this way is because one must hook their target in order to get their attention. so after the positive validation (for a set who is +7.5) you negatively validate them (tease, push) in order to put yourself at a higher level than them because at the beginning they are higher than you. the main reason why it is good to use negging is to challenge the ego of a girl of high calibre which is something that a typical afc does not do. and by doing this, it shows that u r a man that has high standards and does not go for just any girl and this will make the girl more interested and it will compel her to work harder to gain your approval because you have showed disinterest in her, told her that she does not fit your standards (negative validation). girls always want the guys that is surrounded by women and guys which are difficult to get, its a challenge for women to go after those guys.

building rapport is a very interesting process. in order to build a great emotional connection one must choose to talk about things which have deep emotional content. it does not matter what the girl does or likes, you can connect with her even if you have dissimilar interests. as you know all occupations and hobbies are completely different in their complexity, principles and structure, but there is one thing which all of them have in common/share "EMOTIONS". one must be empathetic and show a girl that u understand why she chose to do that job or hobbie by expressing the emotions that one feels when doing that activity, it shows that you're really trying to get to know her, and she will think "wow this is a great guy to talk to, he's making an effort to understand me, but wait, i dont know anything about him" and this will compel her to ask you questions and u can freely express yourself how ever much u want as long as u express urself passionately and positively. all the men dont do this at all and do not understand how much empathy is a powerful force and openly allow themselves to be perceived to see a girl superficially. you can use the concept of 'rapport' to ur advantage as well.

in order for you to build greater rapport with her, get used to asking more open-ended questions e.g. "what have you been up to?" or "What did u get up to today?", my one: "What monkey business did u get up to today?". dont use questions like "wats up hun?", thats a closed-ended question which the girl would simply answer and she wont give u much material to work on in order to reach the hook point.

and connect on her answers in a positive way. dont be afraid to tease her as well. dont be afraid to create impact. when telling a girl about a situation that happened to u on that day or in the week, give more details about it, women love details. it is also good to read the local news paper, women are usually very aware what happens in the world, u should as well. u can get her point of view on something in the news (nothing to do with which celebrity had sex with who) e.g. political, environmental, sociological etc and then she would ask you what u think and you can manipulate the conversation which can lead anywhere u want.

another way u can have an "endless conversation" is the principle of "Question, statement, Question, statement, Q, S, Q, S etc". so u ask an open question, receive the answer, and then make a statement about the last thing she said in order to ask a deeper question. this process can go round in a circle, it can go on for ages.

after you have the girl attracted to you and built rapport, here's how to make sure that you can get a definite number close and afterwards ensure a date in the future.

the way to ask a girl out is by 'offering' not asking permission, never ask "Do you want to go out tonight?" or "will you go out with me?" or "so what time are you free tomorrow?". They are all questions which AFCs do. they make a guy sound needy, desperate, dependent on doing something with her.

so before offering a date, let her know how busy and sociable you are. girls want guys who are difficult to get. usually in rapport with girls, to make sure she does not flake on u after the first meeting, there's a pua principle called 'seeding'. this is when u in plant an invitation in the conversation with her but u havent actually invited her. for example, you could say that "im thinking of going to this really cool bar sometime next week which i heard about". now usually when a guy mentions to a girl about going to a bar, club or party that u know, the girl will always expects the guy to automatically invite her. but what you would do is just to mention the party or the bar and continue on the conversation. this will catch the girl off guard and the girl will be thinking "hey, this guy is pretty cool (depending on the attraction and rapport), but he has just mentioned this party but why is he not asking me out?". she will think this and will be more compelled and desperate for you to ask her and she realises that she needs to work in order to get the invitation. women want to go to things that are hard to get into, exclusive and even more if they are told they cant go. people always want to go to things when they have been told they cant go. sounds so forbiden and interesting.

dont be in the position to be waiting for a girl to call you, women are lazy or busy but definitely unreliable. you make the contact. but when u contact, dont sound like you are too eager to see her, bad sign to show that ur desperate. in between texting a girl, act like u dont care if she ever replies back. i know it sounds crazy, but it does not feel good waiting, checking ur phone every so often seeing if the girl replies. have the frame of mind that u dont care about a reply, then u will feel less anxious, and more focused on ur game.

Hope that i have helped. happy gaming dude
Great job on the answer! Respect!

Author:  Slip n Slide [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:23 am ]
Post subject: 

There's been some great stuff here already (Mickey!) but I figured I'd give my 2 cents on the things that have really helped me.

1. Cold reading. Nothing makes a girl feel like she knows you more than implying that you know her. Observe things about her and comment on them, either by saying "You're like this" or "I'm like this," where "this" is the same in either case. Cold reads tend to hook a girl into a deeper conversation better than anything else I've tried. By deeper, I mean both going from "opener fluff" to a real conversation or from a real conversation into a deep, powerfully connected one.

2. Pay attention to what she says. There is endless value to this. If you sincerely, honestly pay attention, without focusing on what you're going to say next, she will give you the material to ask an insightful question, or draw a parallel to your own life that reflects her values. Don't be so scared of an awkward silence that you work on what to say before it even happens.

3. Challenge her. Nothing works better for flirting than a challenge. This really focuses on push/pull and disqualifiers. Saying "Oh really? I don't know if you can handle me" is a better turn-on than "You're beautiful" will ever be. The key here is timing. This works great at the start of a conversation, but once you're curled up with her on a couch, you're much better off talking about what you wanted to be growing up rather than disqualifying.

And remember, your mid-game will NEVER get better unless you PRACTICE!
Good luck man!

Author:  GeminisNext [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:18 am ]
Post subject: 

I was just out in the Manhattan and opened a good 15-20 sets.
Id get great feedback at first but I wouldnt be able to create the attraction.

This stuff sounds like it would help.Thank you so much.

If you have anything else to add on vreatign attraction please respond.Thank you.

Author:  Jerry Green [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:50 pm ]
Post subject: 

I know a lot of light has already been shed on this topic, but I'm going to add my 2 cents.

In my opinion, what you should be doing to improve your mid game is to continue to push your boundaries and also to continue to learn more. In the first case, the more you push your boundaries (go an extra 20% as Style would say), the easier "the game" becomes. By pushing boundaries you learn your limits, you learn what to say, as well as when and how to say it. You only get better by practicing, so get out there and practice.

You are just like an athlete. If you read about baseball, but don't actually go and play baseball, you are only going to be able to go so far with your game. You won't know where the ball is going, you won't know anything about your opponent, and you probably won't know how to tweak your strategy mid-game to help improve your chance of success. Only by practicing baseball do you actually learn this shit.

The second piece of advice is easy. Learn, learn, learn. Keep learning. this helps build confidence which then helps your game. Learn from different instructors, continue to read / ask questions on the forums. Just try to wrap your head around as much shit as you possibly can (remembering not to just flood your system with routines and bullshit...) and this will help you in field greatly.

Hope this helps

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