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PUA may be right, but I refuse to play the game
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Author:  Stephen B. [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:49 am ]
Post subject:  PUA may be right, but I refuse to play the game
.. for the sake of my own sanity. You decide whether I'm needy AFC or thinking correctly.

So its all the same story. The same shit, nothing new to this forum, but different variations that I can't seem to pass by. Dating gf and been exclusive with her for few months altogether. Started with sex, and so on. A fine relationship foundation where you naturally think: one day weird crap may appear, but not overnight. Don't ask me too much details to expose, its internet, I will end this introduction as to point out that everything was perfectly well, even few days ago when we saw each other.

I'll try to be short now.

I hate this 'getting distant' crap and flaking with a passion. In no way have I acted AFC. We really reciprocated everything. Except, she had a role of initiating online texts, and I have no problem with such communication, however I never let it be overused. The girl is intelligent, so there is no point in avoiding occasional chat, but women can also chat about irrelevant things, give you shit tests behind screen out of boredom, or something is written just for the sake of typing and it comes out plain stupid. And she has, or should have, her school obligations, while I have mine responsibilites. We have some form of schedule when we spend time together, and it has always been great. My role is to mostly lead about major meetings, i.e. at my place once a week to come over which is current routine, though she suggested for us to meet during week when I remained quiet. I'm fine with that.

NOW I ADMIT. I can be painfully sceptical person. Paranoid as well, some stuff remained from dealing with things gone wrong and being cheated on in LTRs, so sometimes I wish not having to go through another relationship, but here it is. Yet I never show myself in that light, rather calculate before acting.

And so.. I started to go more sexual in talking, it should be important component. Not that we can do it everyday, so I need to be able to briefly communicate in that way, kind of a foreplay. She reacted well. We had had good time as usual in meeting, sex followed, she showed affection that night, continued being usually affectionate day after in text, and day after, and suddenly.. I sense it, I sense the bullshit going on.

If you find details tiresome or irrelevant - point of topic:

For two days now her texts and answers are simple. Common stuff. No daily keywords. I can't really explain this without personal c/p.

Regular examples, since she likes to be in touch online and mostly initiates, are conversations with at least one keyword, line, reply, symbol, focus on "us", indicating affection. And always established (nick)name at the end of conversation (not "I love you" stupid shit, but something meaningful like that is imperative, even suffice). bear in mind we see each other only 7 hours a week currently.

This time I decided to initiate like that(and in text these are exceptions), to show I was thinking about her during day. she doesn't reciprocate but gives usual small talk. No keywords she always uses, not even at convo close.
Second day, she gives me late report about being sick, meaning we cancel appointment on following day. She replies with hint to delay it for the end of the week, but ignores my mention of weekend which is when we actually spend major time together, not a half an hour coffe shop. Also, she appeared to cut me off coldly when I tried to heat up the words a little bit. I remained silent to this, she adds that she is going to sleep, and ends convo poorly with no keywords again, just a stupid symbol. Lack of enthusiasm disturbing. However, me reacting to few drop downs from her side can sound insane, needy, whatever, but its hard to explain how I see this as flaking when not giving you real conversation. And I am very serious about noticing first red alerts, where others would wait, freeze her out, re-iterate seducing, I take smallest things in account, and I don't need to stand shit again.

And so, on mportant note, if someone will reply to this topic, since this is a public corner I would appreciate very much you p.m. me so I can send you the conversation lines as they are, because I can now be accused of overanalyzing, but I won't post them here.

Thank you.
Author:  Dr. Jones [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PUA may be right, but I refuse to play the game
She replied coldly when you attempted to heat up the words? What words?

If English isn't your first language, I apologize. Otherwise, I have to agree with you when you say you overanalyze things. To the point I read that whole thing in C-3PO's voice.
Author:  Danzella [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PUA may be right, but I refuse to play the game
I agree with Dr. Jones, I had to read the post a couple of times to get the information to sink in!

I'd say you're over analyzing, but it's hard to tell due to the lack of any substantial information. If shes flaking, then freeze her out for a couple of days. I know you said you don't want to play the game, but sadly women leave us no choice sometimes.
Author:  krular [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PUA may be right, but I refuse to play the game
I think shes getting tired of the ROUTINE. Everyone gets tired of a routine at some point.
Author:  Stephen B. [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PUA may be right, but I refuse to play the game
Well, people, the point is I have to focus on other stuff in life.

The honeymoon period just began rollin', we are few months into it, everything was solid. I didn't show AFC behaviour and jealousy, never felt my needs overweight hers, and so on. We openly fell for each other, but none of us is childishly needy. I did nothing wrong. I'd argue that games are fine in seduction phase, when played in right context, not when you have to play them hard and all the time, NOT to please her fucking moods or when she decides to act weird.

As for the "routine", you are taking that word too seriously. Yes, it is harmful in the long run, say, year or 2, but how the fuck should we be intimate if we don't organize time together at least once, twice a week. What kind of RS start would that be? no sexual desire, intimacy, but only chasing, mind reading crap?

So you imply that because she hardly reciprocated in text, this is a red flag? Maybe getting too comfortable?

When I see her next time, it will be crucial, as she never ever flakes face-to-face. If she is going to do that, or cancels the major meeting in favour of 1h coffe shop, then I will use vanishing technique for the first time in my life. I won't tolerate shit and silly games.
Author:  mikemight [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PUA may be right, but I refuse to play the game
Quote:
.. for the sake of my own sanity. You decide whether I'm needy AFC or thinking correctly.

So its all the same story. The same shit, nothing new to this forum, but different variations that I can't seem to pass by. Dating gf and been exclusive with her for few months altogether. Started with sex, and so on. A fine relationship foundation where you naturally think: one day weird crap may appear, but not overnight. Don't ask me too much details to expose, its internet, I will end this introduction as to point out that everything was perfectly well, even few days ago when we saw each other.

I'll try to be short now.

I hate this 'getting distant' crap and flaking with a passion. In no way have I acted AFC. We really reciprocated everything. Except, she had a role of initiating online texts, and I have no problem with such communication, however I never let it be overused. The girl is intelligent, so there is no point in avoiding occasional chat, but women can also chat about irrelevant things, give you shit tests behind screen out of boredom, or something is written just for the sake of typing and it comes out plain stupid. And she has, or should have, her school obligations, while I have mine responsibilites. We have some form of schedule when we spend time together, and it has always been great. My role is to mostly lead about major meetings, i.e. at my place once a week to come over which is current routine, though she suggested for us to meet during week when I remained quiet. I'm fine with that.

NOW I ADMIT. I can be painfully sceptical person. Paranoid as well, some stuff remained from dealing with things gone wrong and being cheated on in LTRs, so sometimes I wish not having to go through another relationship, but here it is. Yet I never show myself in that light, rather calculate before acting.

And so.. I started to go more sexual in talking, it should be important component. Not that we can do it everyday, so I need to be able to briefly communicate in that way, kind of a foreplay. She reacted well. We had had good time as usual in meeting, sex followed, she showed affection that night, continued being usually affectionate day after in text, and day after, and suddenly.. I sense it, I sense the bullshit going on.

If you find details tiresome or irrelevant - point of topic:

For two days now her texts and answers are simple. Common stuff. No daily keywords. I can't really explain this without personal c/p.

Regular examples, since she likes to be in touch online and mostly initiates, are conversations with at least one keyword, line, reply, symbol, focus on "us", indicating affection. And always established (nick)name at the end of conversation (not "I love you" stupid shit, but something meaningful like that is imperative, even suffice). bear in mind we see each other only 7 hours a week currently.

This time I decided to initiate like that(and in text these are exceptions), to show I was thinking about her during day. she doesn't reciprocate but gives usual small talk. No keywords she always uses, not even at convo close.
Second day, she gives me late report about being sick, meaning we cancel appointment on following day. She replies with hint to delay it for the end of the week, but ignores my mention of weekend which is when we actually spend major time together, not a half an hour coffe shop. Also, she appeared to cut me off coldly when I tried to heat up the words a little bit. I remained silent to this, she adds that she is going to sleep, and ends convo poorly with no keywords again, just a stupid symbol. Lack of enthusiasm disturbing. However, me reacting to few drop downs from her side can sound insane, needy, whatever, but its hard to explain how I see this as flaking when not giving you real conversation. And I am very serious about noticing first red alerts, where others would wait, freeze her out, re-iterate seducing, I take smallest things in account, and I don't need to stand shit again.

And so, on mportant note, if someone will reply to this topic, since this is a public corner I would appreciate very much you p.m. me so I can send you the conversation lines as they are, because I can now be accused of overanalyzing, but I won't post them here.

Thank you.
This is a relationship forum, so I am going to put to you in a spiritual context of what is happening here. I think this might help you and others here understand why they are having relationship problems. The idea of relationship problems is NOT to bring out the negative experience afterwards, but rather to bring the positive experience what you can learn from it and help you attract the right kind of girls. The basics of PUA help you get girls and keep them, but do not allow you to keep the wrong type of girls. Too many people tried using PUA to keep wrong type of girls. On the basic level, it is not the girls' problem, it is with you. You are the one that are attracting the wrong type of girls because like does attract like. The girls themselves are attracting also towards the wrong type of guys too and driving away the nice Alpha type guys! Ask them and they will all agree on this. Why can't they get those Alpha nice guys to love them. Common complaint.

We learn a great deal of ourselves through relationships, be it with your friends, parents, siblings and your potential girlfriends or wives. They are there to provide you with a contrasting experience to allow you to discover and nurture various elements of yourself, be it self-confidence, self-worth, self-love, self-control etc... These life lessons all to often involves dating a number of girls who are then teaching you the deficit of yourself, be it self-control for instance (like making girls feel their job to their BF is just sex and nothing else) or self-confidence that attracts girls with really low-self esteem. All of these issues need to be resolved at your own level before you are ready to attract the right kind of girls and you WILL (just later on in your life if you are willing to change). You could be doing everything right and yet have girls play games, because they are not the right kind of girls for you!

An analogy here is like you decide to swim in shark infested waters. Is it the shark's fault to bite you? Of course, it's their nature to treat you like a seal and it's their food source. How do you prevent from being bitten by a shark even if you're Michael Phelps? Well, swim in a lake or a swimming pool or the ocean that is not infested with sharks.
But you need an education to change this. You need to be bitten by a couple of sharks so you can learn why you are attracting these kind of girls. Some aspects of your personal worth, love and control that are lacking. Once you identified those deficiencies, set your ego aside and WORK ON THEM. Girls will play games, but the good ones will play and respect your boundaries. The bad ones don't care sh*t because they don't love you.

Most of these girls have their own issues. They are unable to love themselves much, so they need others to love them. Most of them equate sex as being in love, but felt used by their men. So you see the problem here. You can not help them. Yes, some men know this and used them for sex because they know that's their weakness. They are train wrecks. Social drifters and rebound girls are just that. They get hot and then cold and then hot again.

Keep in mind that good girls love sex too, but treat it as a means of close bonding with you, because they "DO" love themselves and is bonding themselves to you to share their love. Question is, do you know how to love yourself first? If you don't, then you will keep attracting girls that don't love themselves.

What I found that every time I date a new girl, she's always better than the last and it gets better and better. Years afterwards, I am dating more secure confident full loving girls compared to my earlier years with low-self esteem sex deprived, controlling and manipulative girls. This can only mean that I've changed enough to attract the right kind of girls which are now keepers. It is then, your PUA skills with good communication skills can help keep the bonding last forever, but in that process of ever lasting bond, there will be a few last skills you need to improve to get there.

Does it help? 8)
Author:  krular [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PUA may be right, but I refuse to play the game
Quote:
As for the "routine", you are taking that word too seriously. Yes, it is harmful in the long run, say, year or 2, but how the fuck should we be intimate if we don't organize time together at least once, twice a week. What kind of RS start would that be? no sexual desire, intimacy, but only chasing, mind reading crap?
I may have took the word routine to seriously, but from your writing she seemed to be really into you and the only flag I saw routine. Now i dont think there is anything wrong with a routine especially when it is the only way to be intimate because of life getting in the way. I dont think a routine has to change but being spontanous sometimes can make it feel like something is different than just the same ole routine. Spontanous can be just driving 15 mins to get a 2 second kiss from her, or leaving a bag of skittles in her car for her to find.

Quote:
When I see her next time, it will be crucial, as she never ever flakes face-to-face. If she is going to do that, or cancels the major meeting in favour of 1h coffe shop, then I will use vanishing technique for the first time in my life. I won't tolerate shit and silly games.
I agree, i dont tolerate shit and silly games but i also handle shit that women throw at me in an indirect way because handling it directly, women tend to think a man is defensive and doesnt get what they are saying.
Author:  vhou812 [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PUA may be right, but I refuse to play the game
My 2 cents will be short and simple.

The OP says in one post I did nothing wrong. If this is true, then what are you worrying about? Get over it. If you've done nothing wrong, and the relationship is dissolving, accept that you did nothing wrong, and quit making your whole life revolve around how she answers you.

Second point, as yourself if you knew she was analyzing your actions and words this way, would you find that attractive? You said it best yourself. Get your ass doing some other things and quit worrying about her so much. Worry about you. Doing that gives you the best chance to be happy, with her or without her.
Author:  User13247 [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PUA may be right, but I refuse to play the game
Quote:
My 2 cents will be short and simple.

The OP says in one post I did nothing wrong. If this is true, then what are you worrying about? Get over it. If you've done nothing wrong, and the relationship is dissolving, accept that you did nothing wrong, and quit making your whole life revolve around how she answers you.

Second point, as yourself if you knew she was analyzing your actions and words this way, would you find that attractive? You said it best yourself. Get your ass doing some other things and quit worrying about her so much. Worry about you. Doing that gives you the best chance to be happy, with her or without her.
This.
Author:  Stephen B. [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PUA may be right, but I refuse to play the game
Good answers, thanks.

Lets see..

Quote:

This is a relationship forum, so I am going to put to you in a spiritual context of what is happening here. I think this might help you and others here understand why they are having relationship problems. The idea of relationship problems is NOT to bring out the negative experience afterwards, but rather to bring the positive experience what you can learn from it and help you attract the right kind of girls. The basics of PUA help you get girls and keep them, but do not allow you to keep the wrong type of girls. Too many people tried using PUA to keep wrong type of girls. On the basic level, it is not the girls' problem, it is with you. You are the one that are attracting the wrong type of girls because like does attract like. The girls themselves are attracting also towards the wrong type of guys too and driving away the nice Alpha type guys! Ask them and they will all agree on this. Why can't they get those Alpha nice guys to love them. Common complaint.

We learn a great deal of ourselves through relationships, be it with your friends, parents, siblings and your potential girlfriends or wives. They are there to provide you with a contrasting experience to allow you to discover and nurture various elements of yourself, be it self-confidence, self-worth, self-love, self-control etc... These life lessons all to often involves dating a number of girls who are then teaching you the deficit of yourself, be it self-control for instance (like making girls feel their job to their BF is just sex and nothing else) or self-confidence that attracts girls with really low-self esteem. All of these issues need to be resolved at your own level before you are ready to attract the right kind of girls and you WILL (just later on in your life if you are willing to change). You could be doing everything right and yet have girls play games, because they are not the right kind of girls for you!
I agree, but there is no problem in this context. No signs of low self-esteem or anything like that. Such things may come out and need to be explored, worked on, in higher relationship levels. When you have real insight about each other, through different situations and experiences. I've been through shit with my ex girlfriends, and shit eventually becomes reason to end it, but there MUST be some logic. It is not possible for intelligent adult to fairly choose a person for relationship, developing attachment, and do a 180 degree turn inside their head, over night, unless we are talking about schizophrenic. We are not talking about healthy game here, this hypothetical case would be insane, in my opinion a psychological violence that MUST be sanctioned, its a malign behaviour. Maybe I'm going too far with this, but lets not pretend... Every man and fucking woman should stand behind their words. I'm won't be responsible for hers, it is not "problem, with me". And thats oh, so fine, much more has been tolerated just for the sake of playing childish games.



Quote:
An analogy here is like you decide to swim in shark infested waters. Is it the shark's fault to bite you? Of course, it's their nature to treat you like a seal and it's their food source. How do you prevent from being bitten by a shark even if you're Michael Phelps?
Why the fuck would I do that? I didn't just jump in, as you can read, things have been going perfectly fine.
Quote:
Most of these girls have their own issues. They are unable to love themselves much, so they need others to love them. Most of them equate sex as being in love, but felt used by their men. So you see the problem here. You can not help them. Yes, some men know this and used them for sex because they know that's their weakness. They are train wrecks. Social drifters and rebound girls are just that. They get hot and then cold and then hot again. Keep in mind that good girls love sex too, but treat it as a means of close bonding with you, because they "DO" love themselves and is bonding themselves to you to share their love. Question is, do you know how to love yourself first? If you don't, then you will keep attracting girls that don't love themselves.
On this note, her first and one experience ever, before we met, was ONS. She also never wanted RS before me. Here is my earlier topic addressing that: help-me-in-decision-making-vt156647.html .And everyone always says you don't have to take things like that into account :lol: People tend to forget about 'conditioning' reality, and loosing virginity in ONS was something I wouldn't usually tolerate.

Quote:
What I found that every time I date a new girl, she's always better than the last and it gets better and better. Years afterwards, I am dating more secure confident full loving girls compared to my earlier years with low-self esteem sex deprived, controlling and manipulative girls. This can only mean that I've changed enough to attract the right kind of girls which are now keepers. It is then, your PUA skills with good communication skills can help keep the bonding last forever, but in that process of ever lasting bond, there will be a few last skills you need to improve to get there.

Does it help? 8)
Yes, I had few excellent relationships, but there are no rules.
Quote:
I may have took the word routine to seriously, but from your writing she seemed to be really into you and the only flag I saw routine. Now i dont think there is anything wrong with a routine especially when it is the only way to be intimate because of life getting in the way. I dont think a routine has to change but being spontanous sometimes can make it feel like something is different than just the same ole routine. Spontanous can be just driving 15 mins to get a 2 second kiss from her, or leaving a bag of skittles in her car for her to find.
Agreed. I was spontaneous, and we had some great time. Everything has its place. If we last, she'll get surprises, but time is determinant. I repeat, this is a fresh relationship. 2 - 3 months is not enough time to even become a routine.

Quote:
My 2 cents will be short and simple.

The OP says in one post I did nothing wrong. If this is true, then what are you worrying about? Get over it. If you've done nothing wrong, and the relationship is dissolving, accept that you did nothing wrong, and quit making your whole life revolve around how she answers you.

Second point, as yourself if you knew she was analyzing your actions and words this way, would you find that attractive? You said it best yourself. Get your ass doing some other things and quit worrying about her so much. Worry about you. Doing that gives you the best chance to be happy, with her or without her.
Yes, but I need to sort this out before moving on, with her or without her.

Today, I was busy and out, and she basically texted some random meme that doesn't have to do with anything and left it at that as I was late to reply after she usually goes offline. Well, to me such recent texts now seems too comfortable, random and bad, with no substance. It still remains to see her in person soon, so I maybe overreact too early over fucking texts, but its still a fact she relaxed a bit and visibly dropped affection in typing. If she didn't use that way to show any affection before, to begin with, I wouldn't mind, but this is a sudden change of pattern and now she fails. If problems really arise, I'll look upon to apply sudden vanishing technique.

Of course, this "precious" experience won't boost up my confidence, it will be a fucked up shit to go through again.
Author:  R.C [ Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PUA may be right, but I refuse to play the game
OP , you have a way with words that makes it painfully difficult to understand you.


Anyway, send me a PM so I can see what's really up ,instead of randomly replying in darkness.


However , one thing I really wanna point out to you:
Quote:
I can be painfully sceptical person. Paranoid as well, some stuff remained from dealing with things gone wrong and being cheated on in LTRs,
That's the worst possible mistake. If you're gonna live your life in fear of what might happen , just because it happened before , you're never really gonna be able to give people the chances they deserve. You're just gonna create your own little black hole within , that's slowly gonna tear you apart.

No one wants to be cheated on , lied to or hurt. But if you want the high rewards , you're gonna have to take the high risks.There's a difference between being 'vigilant' and being over protective of ones' self.

"If you wanna survive , you have to be willing to die".
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