PUA Forum :: Commited to Open Relationship

I've been seeing a lot of guys (on this forum) try to take their formerly committed relationship into an open relationship to try to salvage something that isn't going anywhere. Why? They cannot let go. Sunk costs, and all that jazz. (Google it if you don't know what "sunk cost" is)

From my understanding, an open relationship works best if that is the first stage... not as a band-aid for a relationship that isn't working. And when girls accept an open relationship, what they really mean is that they'll agree to keep getting emotional support from you while they go out and find a guy who fits them better. It is easier than a clean break-up because it delays the pain.

I hope this isn't the case with you.

Since that, we've been SO much closer, our heightened jealousy and, now lack of routine seems to have brought us closer together, at least for now.

I know a few of you on this forum stand by the rule that open relationships are the best, and as a newbie to an Open Relationship I was wondering if any of you could give me a few tips.

By the way, the whole thing about open relationships not being real is so much cultural baggage. You want to know the test of a real relationship? She ends up in the hospital without insurance and you throw down your visa card without a second thought--even when you know there are going to be a lot of zeroes in the bill. If you are not willing to do that, your relationship has not (yet) reached the "real" stage. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how many other girls you are fucking.

Quote:

i would throw down my visa for my mom, my next door neighbor, or several of my friends...i am in a "relationship" with none. jus'sayn

Quote:

i would throw down my visa for my mom, my next door neighbor, or several of my friends...i am in a "relationship" with none. jus'sayn

what i don't understand is how you define it?
what "special thing" do you have with that person if not sex?
that you DON'T share with anyone else?
there has to be SOMETHING exclusive, or she is no different from any other woman and you are no different from any other man.
then...what's the point?
friendship?

I will try this, not claiming that my definition is universally valid. I am now only speaking for myself.

First, I don't distinguish between "a relationship" in the sense of American romantic ideology and "relationships"--meaning anyone I have an emotionally enduring connection to, they are simply on a continuum.

That continuum is made up of two factors: (1) degree of emotional intensity, and (2) level of reciprocity and prestation. That is, how I feel about it and what I am willing to give and what I get from it.

To the extent that one (or a few) relationships are VERY important, its because my life, past, present and as I imagine the future, is closely connected to that person--residence, emotional support, financial connectedness, shared responsibilities. Sex can be part of this, but is not necessary, and exclusivity certainly does not define what I feel for a person. Typically for most people a very close relationship with a member of the opposite sex includes sex, but I've at times been in platonic relationships with guys (I'm not gay or bi), whom I shared residence with, was in business with, etc. that were a lot closer than with the girl I happened to be fucking at the time.

Just my 2 cents.

Author:	Danzella [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Commited to Open Relationship
I know a few of you on this forum stand by the rule that open relationships are the best, and as a newbie to an Open Relationship I was wondering if any of you could give me a few tips. I'd been in a committed relationship for 5 months, a few day ago we were both unsure of how we felt about each other, so after around 2 hours of talking we decided to enter a slightly more open relationship. We both agreed that having sex with other people is not what we wanted, but we are allowed to kiss and make out with other people, it might not be what you'd call a traditional open relationship, perhaps we've simply, relaxed and expanded our boundaries a little. The problem for me, is that I feel trapped when in a normal committed relationship, I like being able to go out, and make out with girls. And, in my mind, I know that I'm fine with her making out with guys, at least to a point. I really like this girl and want to keep her and I feel a Semi-Open relationship is the only way I can keep my feelings true to her, without becoming trapped and bailing. How can I avoid jealousy when shes with another guy?

Author:	Apocalyptica [ Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:
If you can't deal with jealousy (which i assume since you want to avoid it) my advice is to not have ANY kind of relationship with this girl.

Author:	Mack 2.0 [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:53 am ]
Post subject:
i don't see an open relationship AS a relationship. i see it as two dating, who are also dating other people. LOL let's just call it what it is. relationships are exclusive.

Author:	Slip n Slide [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:08 am ]
Post subject:
I would handle it by not allowing her to make out with guys where I can see it or hear about it. I assume this is also true in your rules. And from there, I would work hard on my inner game (esp "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. This is the fundamental basis for about all my advice nowadays) and not think about it. It may seem like denial, but for me it's just acceptance. You made the commitment to allow her to go a certain distance, but odds are that if you knew about it you'd be unhappy. So be happy with your decision and DON'T THINK ABOUT IT! That will be much easier to do if you read (or preferably listen to) the book.

Author:	Wal [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:15 am ]
Post subject:
I've been seeing a lot of guys (on this forum) try to take their formerly committed relationship into an open relationship to try to salvage something that isn't going anywhere. Why? They cannot let go. Sunk costs, and all that jazz. (Google it if you don't know what "sunk cost" is) From my understanding, an open relationship works best if that is the first stage... not as a band-aid for a relationship that isn't working. And when girls accept an open relationship, what they really mean is that they'll agree to keep getting emotional support from you while they go out and find a guy who fits them better. It is easier than a clean break-up because it delays the pain. I hope this isn't the case with you.

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Author:	Mack 2.0 [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:23 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: I've been seeing a lot of guys (on this forum) try to take their formerly committed relationship into an open relationship to try to salvage something that isn't going anywhere. Why? They cannot let go. Sunk costs, and all that jazz. (Google it if you don't know what "sunk cost" is) From my understanding, an open relationship works best if that is the first stage... not as a band-aid for a relationship that isn't working. And when girls accept an open relationship, what they really mean is that they'll agree to keep getting emotional support from you while they go out and find a guy who fits them better. It is easier than a clean break-up because it delays the pain. I hope this isn't the case with you. SPOT. ON.

Author:	Danzella [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:39 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: I've been seeing a lot of guys (on this forum) try to take their formerly committed relationship into an open relationship to try to salvage something that isn't going anywhere. Why? They cannot let go. Sunk costs, and all that jazz. (Google it if you don't know what "sunk cost" is) From my understanding, an open relationship works best if that is the first stage... not as a band-aid for a relationship that isn't working. And when girls accept an open relationship, what they really mean is that they'll agree to keep getting emotional support from you while they go out and find a guy who fits them better. It is easier than a clean break-up because it delays the pain. I hope this isn't the case with you. I can see where you are coming from, but at the moment at least that doesn't seem to be the case. The Open Relationship was actually my idea, I brought it up and at first she was actually quite against it, I gradually but subtly, through the conversation highlighted the good parts about it and faded out the bad parts, so effectively talking her into it. Since that, we've been SO much closer, our heightened jealousy and, now lack of routine seems to have brought us closer together, at least for now. She admitted during the conversation that things had become too routine (my fault) so I'm not working to break routine and be spontaneous where I can. The fact that we both know that we could go off and have someone else, has heightened the competition for us both, sparking off that attraction again, so at this stage at least, it seems like it was a good idea.

Author:	Slip n Slide [ Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Since that, we've been SO much closer, our heightened jealousy and, now lack of routine seems to have brought us closer together, at least for now. You're playing with fire here. Things have the potential to go so wrong you won't believe it. If it isn't working, like other posters said, there's no reason to drag it out. If you want an open relationship, you'll need to get rid of the jealousy on both ends.

Author:	stefangreyman [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Commited to Open Relationship
Quote: I know a few of you on this forum stand by the rule that open relationships are the best, and as a newbie to an Open Relationship I was wondering if any of you could give me a few tips. Both god and devil are in the details. While it is generally true that it is easier to take a relationship from Open to Exclusive than the other way around, it can be done. The underlying issue, however, is clarity of mind. You say you feel claustrophobic in an exclusive relationship. Why? Get clear exactly what bothers you about it and then be ready to negotiate. If you figure out that sexual exclusivity is not something you personally want to live, then negotiate for that. By the way, the whole thing about open relationships not being real is so much cultural baggage. You want to know the test of a real relationship? She ends up in the hospital without insurance and you throw down your visa card without a second thought--even when you know there are going to be a lot of zeroes in the bill. If you are not willing to do that, your relationship has not (yet) reached the "real" stage. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how many other girls you are fucking. Unless you have a "contract" with the girl that exclusivity is part of the relationship. The problem is that if you don't negotiate, the implicit contract of incipient relationship is exclusivity. My only actual advice is don't kid yourself about what an open relationship means. If you (and she) are going to have permission to go to clubs, flirt and make out, you will end up in some other girl's bed. In fact you will find you are about five times more attractive to other girls because you are in a relationship! So don't set yourself up for a guilt trip, recriminations, breaking the deal, etc.--or worse sneaking around.

Author:	Mack 2.0 [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Commited to Open Relationship
Quote: By the way, the whole thing about open relationships not being real is so much cultural baggage. You want to know the test of a real relationship? She ends up in the hospital without insurance and you throw down your visa card without a second thought--even when you know there are going to be a lot of zeroes in the bill. If you are not willing to do that, your relationship has not (yet) reached the "real" stage. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how many other girls you are fucking. i would throw down my visa for my mom, my next door neighbor, or several of my friends...i am in a "relationship" with none. jus'sayn

Author:	stefangreyman [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Commited to Open Relationship
Quote: Quote: By the way, the whole thing about open relationships not being real is so much cultural baggage. You want to know the test of a real relationship? She ends up in the hospital without insurance and you throw down your visa card without a second thought--even when you know there are going to be a lot of zeroes in the bill. If you are not willing to do that, your relationship has not (yet) reached the "real" stage. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how many other girls you are fucking. i would throw down my visa for my mom, my next door neighbor, or several of my friends...i am in a "relationship" with none. jus'sayn Yeah, I get what you are saying, but from a sociological pov you are in fact in relationships with those people. Of course if you DEFINE relationship as equal to sexual exclusivity, then of course nothing else counts as a relationship. But in the long, global history of "relationships"--or rather outside the parochial definitions in play under the sway of u.s. romantic ideology--are exactly with persons (usually family or ersatz family, as in the phrase kin and kine) whom you share significant resources. Women are typically integrated into these kin circles via reproduction (i.e. as wives and mothers). But the principle of sharing significant resources makes relationships is pretty universal. By contrast, if all you have is sexual exclusivity, or that plus some romantic/sentimental feeling, you are not engaged in a relationship of much significance. Cross-culturally female monogamy is USUALLY enforced fairly harshly, but not universally. Many cultures couldn't care less, since the really important matter is having wives and children to help till the fields, water the goats, etc. Not wanting a pissing contest here though. I am perfectly willing to cede that your definition of relationship is valid under certain circumstances, particularly if for whatever reason, sexual exclusivity is very important to you. (And, by the way, if you would take on 10k plus of debt for a friend, that is a GOOD friend--not saying you wouldn't do it, but that if you would it makes my point about what a relationship really is. I certainly wouldn't do it for a girl I was fucking casually!)

Author:	Slip n Slide [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Commited to Open Relationship
Quote: Quote: By the way, the whole thing about open relationships not being real is so much cultural baggage. You want to know the test of a real relationship? She ends up in the hospital without insurance and you throw down your visa card without a second thought--even when you know there are going to be a lot of zeroes in the bill. If you are not willing to do that, your relationship has not (yet) reached the "real" stage. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how many other girls you are fucking. i would throw down my visa for my mom, my next door neighbor, or several of my friends...i am in a "relationship" with none. jus'sayn He already hit you with a long response, but mine would just be: You know what he means. He makes a good point, too.

Author:	Mack 2.0 [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:
i appreciate your point-of-view, and i'm a very laid back guy, i don't want a pissing contest either. i don't have any problems with open relationships. i can respect them. what i don't understand is how you define it? what "special thing" do you have with that person if not sex? that you DON'T share with anyone else? there has to be SOMETHING exclusive, or she is no different from any other woman and you are no different from any other man. then...what's the point? friendship?

Author:	stefangreyman [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:12 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: what i don't understand is how you define it? what "special thing" do you have with that person if not sex? that you DON'T share with anyone else? there has to be SOMETHING exclusive, or she is no different from any other woman and you are no different from any other man. then...what's the point? friendship? I will try this, not claiming that my definition is universally valid. I am now only speaking for myself. First, I don't distinguish between "a relationship" in the sense of American romantic ideology and "relationships"--meaning anyone I have an emotionally enduring connection to, they are simply on a continuum. That continuum is made up of two factors: (1) degree of emotional intensity, and (2) level of reciprocity and prestation. That is, how I feel about it and what I am willing to give and what I get from it. To the extent that one (or a few) relationships are VERY important, its because my life, past, present and as I imagine the future, is closely connected to that person--residence, emotional support, financial connectedness, shared responsibilities. Sex can be part of this, but is not necessary, and exclusivity certainly does not define what I feel for a person. Typically for most people a very close relationship with a member of the opposite sex includes sex, but I've at times been in platonic relationships with guys (I'm not gay or bi), whom I shared residence with, was in business with, etc. that were a lot closer than with the girl I happened to be fucking at the time. Just my 2 cents.

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Author:	Slip n Slide [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:55 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: I will try this, not claiming that my definition is universally valid. I am now only speaking for myself. First, I don't distinguish between "a relationship" in the sense of American romantic ideology and "relationships"--meaning anyone I have an emotionally enduring connection to, they are simply on a continuum. That continuum is made up of two factors: (1) degree of emotional intensity, and (2) level of reciprocity and prestation. That is, how I feel about it and what I am willing to give and what I get from it. To the extent that one (or a few) relationships are VERY important, its because my life, past, present and as I imagine the future, is closely connected to that person--residence, emotional support, financial connectedness, shared responsibilities. Sex can be part of this, but is not necessary, and exclusivity certainly does not define what I feel for a person. Typically for most people a very close relationship with a member of the opposite sex includes sex, but I've at times been in platonic relationships with guys (I'm not gay or bi), whom I shared residence with, was in business with, etc. that were a lot closer than with the girl I happened to be fucking at the time. Just my 2 cents. Fantastic way to put it. I swear I could make a pattern out of this (I don't know anything about NLP or patterns, but I know what they sound like and mine still seem to work). Great piece of inner game, preciate the post.