PUA Forum

Straw Man Technique
Page 1 of 11

Author:  CharmingRogue [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Straw Man Technique

Hey Guys,

I want to take a moment now to elaborate on dealing with girls with boyfriends. Guys, if you’re like me you want to get the extremely hot girls [HB9+]. The “problem” is these girls are NEVER single. They are always gonna be involved in a ‘relationship’ with someone [or quite often a couple guys]. Now this is where the ethical question comes in….is it cool for you to continue to sarge a girl who happens to be ‘in a relationship’, i.e. has a boyfriend, is married, or whatever… Excluding the situation where the girl happens to be your friend’s girlfriend [this situation brings up a completely different ethical question which I will not be addressing here], her fidelity is a moral question that only SHE can answer.

Think of it this way, how arrogant are you being to assume that you know what’s truly going on in her current relationship? How presumptuous are you being to assume she is getting everything she needs out of that relationship? How do you know she’s not in an open relationship? And goddammit, why are you selling yourself short knowing that people are always looking for an upgrade and you’re not viewing yourself as her opportunity to trade up?? Point is, she may be in the perfect relationship for her, she may not be. She may be the type that sleeps around even when she is in a ‘committed’ relationship, she may not be. Whatever her situation and character is, the moral question to be faithful to her current boyfriend is a question only she can answer.

That being said, how do you deal with the boyfriend objection?? The typical AFC will usually try to get the girl by belittling and berating her current boyfriend. They will typically say stuff like he is a jerk and that she deserves better [the presumption being that he is better]. NEVER DO THIS!! EVER!!! What you are really doing here is not belittling her boyfriend, you are insulting her. You are subcommunicating that she has bad taste in men. You are saying that she is the idiot girl who stays with a guy that’s not good for her. Ultimately by going this route your underlying subcommunication is that she is in a bad relationship and she deserves nothing better….Well, guess what guys even if your AFC plan to get rid of the boyfriend works and she does break up with him, she certainly isn’t going to be trading up to you. Remember you framed her as having bad taste, so she certainly isn’t going to go out with you to further illustrate this point, is she? Do you guys see the power of setting proper frames?

So now you’re thinking, “Well, Adonis, how do I do it then?” I personally have a few methods I like to use. Sometimes, I use just one….sometimes just a couple…often times I’ll use them all. I like to think of “boyfriend destroying” as a form of “absentee AMOGing”.

I’ve always found the best way to AMOG is to build the guy up like a giant straw man. So guys, I present you a new community term: Straw Man Technique (SMT). In logical reasoning there is a fallacy known as the Straw Man Fallacy. Basically how it works is you refute an argument by building it up to be something it isn’t, then you refute that. For example, I could build George W. Bush up to something like a modern Jesus Christ [or whoever!] and then attack him for not quite measuring up to the ridiculous standard I presupposed him to have. I haven’t really attacked George Bush perse’, I’ve only attacked the fact that he’s not Jesus Christ [or whoever]. You can do this when you AMOG. I like to put a ton of social pressure on the AMOG by making him out to be bigger than life–something that he can never measure up to. Why do I do this? The weight of the enormous amount of social pressure I’ve now heaped upon him will cause him to crumble. He will blow himself out and slink away…all this and you’ve never insulted him. I have executed the perfect SMT on him. The funny thing is, you only have to do the Straw Man framing, they will do the rest. It reminds me of the origin of the term “Straw Man Fallacy”. It comes from the practice of building big straw man in the likeness of the enemy for soldiers to practice attacking. All you have to do is provide the straw man….the troops of social pressure will tear him down.

{By the way, as a side-note, this is part of the reason why guys will blow themselves out when they go in supplicating a woman. When you treat her like a Goddess from the beginning, you tell her how beautiful she is, you buy her all sorts of fancy gifts, you are heaping a lot of social pressure on her–the kind of pressure she can’t live up to…So what ends up happening? She blows you out so she doesn’t have to deal with that kind of social pressure! SMT in action! (counter-productive action, but SMT nonetheless!)}

Some of my favorite SMT boyfriend destroyers:

“You have a boyfriend? Oh my god, it must be so incredible to be with a guy who knows how to fulfill you in every way you truly need to be fulfilled.”

“I’ll bet you’re like his little princess that he would go to the end of the earth to satisfy your every desire no matter how silly it was….and no matter what the cost was for him….that is so cute.”

“I’ll bet he’s the kind of guy that places you up on a pedastal so he can worship you on the throne.”

What does this stuff do? First of all, prima facie it seems really sweet of you to say these things [you've built your cute little straw man], but really you’re doing some sneaky shit here. Basically you’re building him up to an impossibly high level….and he’s not going to be able to measure up to it. This will cause her to think of all his shortcomings and all her unfulfilled needs and desires [she attacks your straw man and destroys him]. Guess who she is gonna be thinking about filling those voids with? The guy that is so fucking alpha that he can talk to her like this. Also, no woman of quality would actually respect a guy like this. So even if she did think of him as being a quality guy, she will now start seeing how all those nice things he does for her, really demonstrates his low value….and you will implicitly gain value for covertly bringing this up.

See how this works guys?? Damned sneaky, Damned effective!! Guys, start practicing your Straw Man Techniques! Develop some of your own….share them here!

A little later I will get to the other aforementioned techniques for boyfriend destroying. In the meantime, have fun playing with SMT.

Author:  TracedInAir [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:01 pm ]
Post subject: 

That's genius man. It's human psychology. If you insult a girl, she feels the need to defend herself; yet if you build her up, she'll tear it back down. It's all balance. :P

Author:  rocky9118 [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:39 pm ]
Post subject: 


Author:  rocky9118 [ Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:40 pm ]
Post subject: 

so how would you replace him with yourself after you were to tear it down. in a way you woudl have to be living up to the expecations you presented to her.

i was talkin to this girl at work and did something similar, i built up her boyfriend said how he must take care of her, she is in a perfect relationship. and she tore him down herself. shes like no, its not really a perfect relationship, i dont see him often , i have to drive up .. stuff like that .

but after this how do you come out to be the good guy.

Author:  Jesus_PT [ Wed May 18, 2011 9:20 pm ]
Post subject: 

i really see the point.

Girls most all of the time, hide behind a relationship as if it was a shit test to see what we say, and sometimes, they do not even have a relationship...

nevertheless, when they do, there's always something lacking....
As we all know, women have eternal dissatisfaction.

pointing the girl out that he is super, will actually reveal his kryptonite as her deep thoughts will sum up what is truly lacking in her relationship...

am i right?

Author:  Tremere [ Thu May 26, 2011 11:16 pm ]
Post subject: 

Very nice technique, mate. And very good explanation about why to try something with woman in relationships.

I don't like to hit woman that are happy with their relationship, but I didn't see a good reason to not to pick a woman who will cheat with someone else!

I really appreciate your well structured flawless technique! For sure, is a 10 technique!

Author:  DOLPHIN003 [ Sun May 29, 2011 12:20 pm ]
Post subject: 

man I'm definitely going to try this next time, its really helped me.

Author:  jinxy [ Sun May 29, 2011 8:38 pm ]
Post subject: 

awesome post

Author:  Amadieus [ Sun May 29, 2011 9:27 pm ]
Post subject: 

Golden, i will remember this when i need it!

Author:  LordRahl [ Mon May 30, 2011 4:39 pm ]
Post subject: 

Sound good, but I can use that too, if I already know, that the girl isn't happy in her relationship?

I have a date on friday and she is in a 6 month relationship. She said, about 2 weeks ago, that she hasn't developed any feelings towards him.
So, she already disqualified him in a way.

Now, do I even talk about her relationship and maybe use your technique? Or, in this case, should I don't talk about him at all?

Author:  skills360 [ Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:37 am ]
Post subject: 

uhmmmmm! sorry but i respectfully disagree with this... With girl with boyfriend, my technique is to be the friends where she comes for relationship advise, and she knows i have other women i am wanted, like the movie "the ugly truth"... I will try for her to ask me relationship advise, when she is having problems and i will point out, the bf lack of skills and what he is doing wrong, and how i would handle it, that will bring higher value.... i will also will point out what she is doing wrong, and always respectfully flirt of course...it works... So i am fucking with her indirectly and she start with time "falling out of love", then when she is done i am in..I got about 5 women TO GET DIVORCES... no proud of that though..

Author:  eating_chicken [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:20 pm ]
Post subject: 

what if you're in a relationship and someone uses this technique against you? i'm not in a relationship myself but i'm curious as to how you should deal with this if you suspect or know that someone is using this technique while talking to your girlfriend.

Author:  skills360 [ Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:36 pm ]
Post subject: 

too late, i will not let my girlfriend have male friends be friends with the exes etc... THAT Is A NO NO... But you have to stop that before it happens without coming across macho or jealous or overprotective you have to do it super super smooth..Also watch out if your girl has single girlfriends, because they will fuck with her mind to be single, misery loves company...Trust me on this, but again you got a be smooth... The best way to manipulate women is to have them convince themselves of the outcome you are looking for...Period! I made exes stop smoking using these principles...

Author:  Octave [ Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:35 pm ]
Post subject: 

holy shit.... that is all

Author:  Psych3r [ Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Variation on SMT

New here, but need to chime in on this one. I think there is some real value to this approach, but I also think there are two parts necessary for it to work. I've used various types of this technique for years in college sometimes with great success, and sometimes with total failure. Over time I figured out there are a few specific variables that have to be ironed out for success.

First, you need to gauge the strength of the targets relationship. Sometimes attempting to build a straw man actually reinforces to a girl why she loves a specific guy so much; In which case you just planted a land mine in your own bed.

A good approach to gauging it is to use a similar psychology trick to assume she is in an awesome relationship without focusing on the guy initially. Also I don't think this will work on a fresh target, and is only viable on someone you've been working up to and have created some familiar report. Otherwise girls have a defense mechanism for guys who get too personal too fast and they just raise a double layer BS.

Example: “So how’s life? Bla bla… So what’s new with you and your boy? Are you guys getting married yet or what?” This can go two ways – either “OMG I can’t wait!” or “Oh please, all we do is fight.” Obviously there is some gray area in there but usually you can get a solid sense of her general opinion of her current situation.

If she responds with excitement to her relationship, suck it up and plant seeds. Best reply is to just smile huge and tell her how awesome it is that she has someone like that – and focus on reinforcing the expert qualities you want her to associate with you, like satisfying in bed, makes her feel safe, all that. Consider it banking pieces of a frame (like the border of a puzzle) that build you up over time as being an equal choice to her currently awesome dude. In case it goes sour she now has a backup in mind who is on the same level as Mr. Perfect.

If she “takes the bait” and starts tearing it down, then the SMT technique as stated above can work well, but I only consider that part 1 of 2. Part 2 I feel is the more important part. Yes getting a girl to think of all her man’s shortcomings is good for you, but it also makes her feel depressed. I suppose if your game is positioned around pity fucks this can work, but frankly I like my girls to look me in the eye and smile when they ride me instead of closing their eyes and fighting tears of guilt. So part 2 involves building her up as an individual who has to look out for her own best interests aside from her relationship.

This is a critical step because most girls psychologically and subconsciously attach themselves to their current mate. Even if he is a raging DB who kicks her teeth in, he is familiar and more so “imprinted” (relating to the bonding chemicals released during sex and especially orgasm in women). This is tough to over come. It’s much easier with a girl in a sexually unsatisfying relationship, but lets be honest – even though most guys suck in bed, most girls don’t care because they aren’t having sex for themselves.

So some examples of the buildup process would be start framing her as a sexy independent woman who knows what she wants and gets what she needs. This has to be subtle, but it accomplishes two things: 1) it gives her a feeling of empowerment which over comes her depressing thoughts of her mistakes in relationships, 2) it associates you as a source of inspiration, power, and recognition of her sexual confidence even if she has very little. Those are 2 very good things.

Also, I have to comment on the post by Skills360. If you have a system that works for you great, but honestly I doubt very many people could get consistent results with that approach. I have to assume you have strong points in other aspects of your game and a hell of a lot of charm to pull that off regularly. Most girls never go with the guy who breaks up their relationship as they are too often associated with the emotional stress that comes along with the breakup. Most girls want a “clean slate” in that situation and leave all of the old behind, including the manipulator who caused it. I’d be willing to bet your success has nothing to do with your approach and probably could be done equally well by not trying to break up the relationships at all and just going for some short term flings.

In fact I’ve had pretty good success with an approach like that where I’ve just come out and said “I have no intention of breaking you up, I just want to have a little harmless fun”. This is very disarming because now the girl doesn’t have two decisions to make (do I want to end my relationship and do I want to start another one with this new guy), it’s just whether or not they have enough attraction to play with you.

Page 1 of 11 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group