Feel like she's about to slip between my fingers, should I..



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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:02 pm 
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About a week ago I opened a beautiful Russian girl who was on a shift in a local bakery shop.

The place was quite crowded with customers and she was very busy, but I flirted with her when trying to choose which cake would I rather buy, and she was interested in me. We had a short conversation and I told her I have to get going but I'd like to take her out for a coffee and get to know her better. She was a bit stressed because there was a impatient customer waiting behind me, demanding her attention (because I was just flirting at that point) and the situation was far from ideal. In other words, I really needed to chat with her for 2-3 more minutes for her to be comfortable enough to close the deal. But that wasn't really an option and she quickly jotted her name on a piece of paper, for me to befriend her on FB.

So we scheduled our evening-coffee for yesterday evening. One day before that, I playfully wrote, "I can give you a tip on how to win my heart - bake me a cookie and bring it tomorrow. I'll be yours forever" and some hearty smilies. This made her laugh.

At the day of our meeting, I wrote, "See you today at 20:00. Cool?"

And she replied that she's sorry, but she's not feeling well and would like to reschedule for Saturday.

Now from my experience, I know there's about a 50% chance that she is feeling ill, and another 50% that she's just not feeling comfortable enough because I didn't build it up the tension well enough when we exchanged contact. And I feel like it's possible that she'd slip right between my fingers.

I am thinking about calling her today or tomorrow - just to have a conversation. Ask her how was her week, and that I know she can't wait to bake me a cookie.. :) IDK. Just so she'd experience a bit of me. Because I found that virtually, it's very easy to forget about people. But honestly I don't have too much experience with this kind of situation and am slightly nervous about seeming needy and blowing everything up. Should I simply call (through facebook), or first ask when she's available for a chit-chat, for example?

I'd like to hear your opinions. Cheers.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:43 pm 
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NOE!!!!! You are not allowed to call her especially when you're in the mindframe of "is she sick or not." You do not call her till after SATURDAY, IF SHE DOESN'T TEXT/SCHEDULE THE DATE WITH YOU THAT DAY.

And if you do end up calling her after SATURDAY, YOU DON'T MENTION the missed date! If you don't listen you risk
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blowing everything up.
In the case you were an expert, you would be permitted a call to set up the date, but in the state you are in asking this question, definintely no.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:56 pm 
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She is 'On the fence'. The ball is in her court for Saturday. Give her some room to take a shot. Fuck coffee, go get grown up cocktails.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:28 pm 
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I see. So basically I understand this is 99% out of my control. This thing is like flying an airplane; every tiny mistake can dramatically affect your chances for survival :P

I'll send her a message tomorrow / on Sat that I hope she feels well, and ask her to bring 'good vibes' in the evening. I believe it's a good thing to day - asking a girl to bring something before a meeting; I think it kind of stands out, making her more committed, and much better than utter silence. I wonder if you guys agree with that approach.

About the 'coffee' thing, it's just a thing I say to get girls chilled. Many girls in Prague tend to be close minded and immediately act defensively if offered 'to go out on a drink'. But the place is a super cozy bar which serves dozens of teas, some of them alcoholic, besides the usual beers/wines/shishah. Perhaps we could start with a nice coffeehouse-club that's 10 minutes down the street, drink and dance a bit and then relocate to the cozy sofa place. We'll see.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 8:39 pm 
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I'll send her a message tomorrow / on Sat that I hope she feels well, and ask her to WEAR SOMETHING SEXY in the evening.

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 1:09 am 
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Don't do any of that shit. Wait like a week. She isn't going to call you or do anything, so it doesn't matter. Then go back in there when it is not so busy, typically towards closing time. Go in and basically just start gaming her anew. Meaning, start with more rapport building and cocky funny stuff. Get her laughing. Then tell her that you got a new phone or lost her number or something, and you want to try and get ahold of her again so you two can go out.

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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 9:34 pm 
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In the end, I sent her an exciting message about why I feel it's important to live life to its fullest, take chances and try new things.

Today we had a 'date'.

She bought me a chocolate bar as compensation for cancelling our last meeting...

We started at an interesting bar where we had a conversation. I chatted with a few random Americans in the bar as well just because I felt friendly (and I think it helped me show a high value as well). After about an hour I asked her if she'd like to try another place, and she said "no it's fine, I like this place". "Okay, so we'll stay 10 more minutes and then move."

After about 10 minutes we both finished our wine and I got up, and said "Okay. Let's go." She got up, and we paid and left.

We left the bar and I took her hand. I held it for about a minute during our uphill walk to the next place - which was about a 10 minutes walk in total. Then she started feeling uncomfortable and let go.

However, when we were nearly there she started becoming quite touchy with me, after I 'kino'ed' her here and there the whole evening... 'Good', I thought.

We entered the place which is all comfy sofas and about 50 types of tea. I ordered a rum-tea. She didn't want anything.

And then we continued to talk... About our hobbies, random stuff really. Though, I knew she was feeling uncomfortable. She sat with her legs crossed, and to the opposite direction from me, and I felt the chemistry isn't ideal. I tried to play the 'question game' in order for her to open up a bit, but as I was trying to ask a bit more personal, sexual questions, she kept asking boring everyday questions. And if I I would say, "that's boring, find a better question" she would reply that.. she's not creative. Although I touched her all evening to try to get her to be a bit more responsive - playing with her hair and whatnot (though I'm 95% sure that I did not overdo it - it was quite occasional), I simply wasn't able to cross that barrier.

So I wasn't able to build comfort the whole evening, until she started looking at her phone and saying that she should catch the next bus which is in 20... 10... 3 minutes. I told her I think she's cute, to which she replied, "no. I am not."

During the whole date she smirked quite a bit, tried to 'make fun of me' about random things (to which I immediately put her in her place), laughed sarcastically a lot (to which I said, "I don't like that laugh. It makes me feel like you're hiding a dark secret from me") etc'... So IDK, I feel like she doesn't really like herself. Which I don't find very attractive. In the past I use to fall for this manipulative sort like a melting marshmallow, but I'm tired of it and nowdays I honestly love women who are truly confident.

But, I'd still like some feedback to understand, what should I have done better. Manipulative or not, she's still god darn hot and my cock has been dry for quite a while. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 12:53 am 
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Quote:
In the end, I sent her an exciting message about why I feel it's important to live life to its fullest, take chances and try new things.

Eh.


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She bought me a chocolate bar as compensation for cancelling our last meeting...
Nice!

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We started at an interesting bar where we had a conversation. I chatted with a few random Americans in the bar as well just because I felt friendly (and I think it helped me show a high value as well)

Too try-hard.

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After about an hour I asked her if she'd like to try another place, and she said "no it's fine, I like this place". "Okay, so we'll stay 10 more minutes and then move."
You: Cool, I like this place too. But my place is even better. Let's get out of here."


One hour of talk? Fuck that. Pay attention to peaks in enthusiasm, and get her back to your place before those peaks fall off.



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We left the bar and I took her hand. I held it for about a minute during our uphill walk to the next place - which was about a 10 minutes walk in total. Then she started feeling uncomfortable and let go.
I hate this kind of KINO. Hand grabs are awkward, and more for relationships. Go for the kiss first.

KINO like hand holding, touching, breast "accidentally" brushing your shoulder is what WOMEN do to dominant MEN. Dominant men just go for what they want with a passionate kiss.

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We entered the place which is all comfy sofas and about 50 types of tea. I ordered a rum-tea. She didn't want anything.

That right there is a huge, red flag that your date is bored and doesn't want to stick around.
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And then we continued to talk... About our hobbies, random stuff really.
zzzzzzzz

You (as you stand): Let's get out of here and head back to my place.

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Though, I knew she was feeling uncomfortable. She sat with her legs crossed, and to the opposite direction from me, and I felt the chemistry isn't ideal. I tried to play the 'question game' in order for her to open up a bit,
zzzzzzzzz


You (as you stand): Let's get out of here and head back to my place.

What many less-dominant men don't realize is that inviting a girl back to your place is exciting for her. She may reject you, but its NOT MUNDANE. It's effectively ramping excitement and maintaining interest.

Stop being afraid. Jump in, man.

You don't need to completely "crack her code" on the date to have her back at your place. You don't need to see "all the signs" or have a checklist. Because often, all that stuff happens in private, in your home. It's an ADULT, organic continuation of a date.


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but as I was trying to ask a bit more personal, sexual questions, she kept asking boring everyday questions. And if I I would say, "that's boring, find a better question" she would reply that.. she's not creative.

sounds like a horrible, tedious conversation. Was your plan to have sex with this woman or chat with her for five hours????
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Although I touched her all evening to try to get her to be a bit more responsive - playing with her hair and whatnot (though I'm 95% sure that I did not overdo it - it was quite occasional), I simply wasn't able to cross that barrier.
Oh man this is bad. Playing with her hair???? this kind of KINO is so passive, so tentative, so....not dominant.

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So I wasn't able to build comfort the whole evening, until she started looking at her phone and saying that she should catch the next bus which is in 20... 10... 3 minutes. I told her I think she's cute, to which she replied, "no. I am not."
Agh, how tedious.

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During the whole date she smirked quite a bit, tried to 'make fun of me' about random things (to which I immediately put her in her place), laughed sarcastically a lot (to which I said, "I don't like that laugh. It makes me feel like you're hiding a dark secret from me") etc'... So IDK, I feel like she doesn't really like herself. Which I don't find very attractive. In the past I use to fall for this manipulative sort like a melting marshmallow, but I'm tired of it and nowdays I honestly love women who are truly confident.
It seems like you don't have the slightest clue how to talk to women. Everything here is so awkward,so forced. "Put her in her place"????

"A" for effort, but...


Get to the fucking point with women. They respect men who don't waste time. your desire was to get laid. Be a cool guy, chat with her for a half hour, have a drink or two, and move the party to your place in order to be congruent with your desire.

Your fear of rejection manifested itself in weak-ass KINO, boring conversation and hesitation.

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 1:29 am 
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Yea dude, once you are on the actual date you can then be extremely complimentary towards her looks and get sexual. The boring questions routine doesn't accomplish anything unless the chick already likes you and genuinely is trying to get to know you. You might as well risk crash and burning by coming on too strong rather than trying to be smooth and charming or whatever you were going for there.

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Hmm alright. Notes taken.

Well TBH, this is the first date I've ever been on after opening a random girl and getting her number. Just started making it a habit a few weeks ago. My entire experience with women is concluded by 7 lays (I'm 22) that most of them had been due to some sort of coincidence (or really slutty chicks). So I'm quite used to talking things very slowly :roll: .

I'll say that, even at the peak of the evening, I felt like there just wasn't enough sexual tension for a kiss. She was always kind of nervous and it took her ages to relax. Some 'pua' dude once told me, that I go in for the kiss whenever I notice asking myself, "Is this the right moment?" - though I never got (or created) the opportunity to ask myself this question. I honestly felt like she's not really mature and that it'd take her time to open up. (for example: I kino'ed her during the whole time we were in the first place. When she took the chocolate bar and gave it to me, I was like "aww that's sweet of you, give me a hug" - and she was too shy or embarrassed for that. So you guys are basically saying, that my saying such a sentence automatically makes me an AFC, and that I should've, for example, rewarded her at least with a kiss on the cheek?)

About the hair caressing, why is that bad? I put my hand to the back of her neck, stroking her hair saying that's it smells amazing (or feels great) and then grabbing her shoulder and gently tugging her towards me, seeing how she reacts. If she kind of resists, I understand she's not ready yet. All the kisses I initiated thus far happened probably after a few weeks of knowing the chick :P.

So drop the hand holding, and instead go in for a huggy-walking position? Or lift my hand bending my elbow to allow her to slide arm through? I'm talking about a situation in which we're at one place and then move to another by walking a couple of minutes.


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 5:47 pm 
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Quote:
.
I'll say that, even at the peak of the evening, I felt like there just wasn't enough sexual tension for a kiss.
Were you attracted to her? If so, ALWAYS go for the kiss on the first date. Often, the kiss itself will get her going.


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She was always kind of nervous and it took her ages to relax.
Girls will get really nervous if they're attracted to you, and haven't fucked in a while. So LEAD. Always remember that physicality can actually decrease nervousness. She may not know what to do with you in terms of conversation, but she'll know what to do with your body. Skipping bullshit conversation and escalating can often times solve all of this.
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Some 'pua' dude once told me, that I go in for the kiss whenever I notice asking myself, "Is this the right moment?"
"right moments" do not appear out of the sky. You create them, and then follow up.

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I was like "aww that's sweet of you, give me a hug" - and she was too shy or embarrassed for that.
Why in the fuck do you want to hug her? She's not your friend. She's not a pal. She's a girl you want to fuck. You don't even know her, so its awkward for her. Save the hugs for way down the road.

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So you guys are basically saying, that my saying such a sentence automatically makes me an AFC, and that I should've, for example, rewarded her at least with a kiss on the cheek?)

She hands you a chocolate bar, and you say with a grin, "This chocolate bar is going to melt. What exactly do you want me to do with it later?"

Right away you're sexualizing, which is what you should do on a date.


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About the hair caressing, why is that bad? I put my hand to the back of her neck, stroking her hair saying that's it smells amazing (or feels great)
Jesus dude! LOL! "Your hair smells great"?????

This type of KINO is fucking weak. Do you want to play with her hair or rip her clothes off? Just isolate and go for the kiss. Forget all this passive KINO. It comes off as creepy. It's what feminine women due to masculine men.

Imagine Clint Eastwood or Jason Statham playing patty cake with a girl's hair, or weakly touching her hand. They just sit there, like a rock, emotionally centered and the girl is the one acting feminine and giving light touches and compliments. Then when he isolates, he just goes for the kiss. The kiss leads to sex.

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and then grabbing her shoulder and gently tugging her towards me, seeing how she reacts. If she kind of resists, I understand she's not ready yet. All the kisses I initiated thus far happened probably after a few weeks of knowing the chick :P.
Eh, that sucks.
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So drop the hand holding, and instead go in for a huggy-walking position? Or lift my hand bending my elbow to allow her to slide arm through? I'm talking about a situation in which we're at one place and then move to another by walking a couple of minutes.
No, don't do any of that shit. She's not your girlfriend (I love KINO for relationships, don't get me wrong, but it's awkward in pickup).

Keep your hands to yourself. Be the rock, be playful and tease. She'll start pawing you. Then isolate and go for the kiss. It could be the back of the bar, near the restrooms, whatever.

However, if she touches your leg at the bar, touch hers. Reciprocate affection she has earned.

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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 8:18 pm 
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Thanks for the detailed response.

I'll tell you what I am slightly confused about.

"The game is played in kino."

I am however, not so sure as to how to work with this tool.

Okay, whenever I am emphasizing a point, I lightly touch her.

Quite often I would caress her shoulder for a second or two, whenever I feel like doing it (which I assume is, whenever it's appropriate for the situation / topic / emotional state at the moment; I trust my instincts).

I would reach for her ear to compliment her earring if I like it.

I would hold her hand and 'test' if her nail-work is pretty. I'd say my mom is a professional manicure/pedicureist and that I can tell a good job from a lousy one (this is very true, and I do appreciate good work).

So... I'm not really sure as to what is this 'passive kino' you're referring to. Are you trying to say, that I am simply escalating like the inexperienced kid that I am, and should really "gear shift" to a totally different level? Put her hand on my lap and if she keeps it there - go for the kiss? (also, I thought isolation is only if we're in a group, and not relevant for a date?)

Although I understand it's probably going to get me blown out one day, I would like to avoid being over-touchy. I am just overcoming a phase of being not touchy at all and would prefer to calibrate more accurately than not :)


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Quote:

I am however, not so sure as to how to work with this tool.
Then don't use the tool.

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Okay, whenever I am emphasizing a point, I lightly touch her.
This is too try-hard.
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Quite often I would caress her shoulder for a second or two, whenever I feel like doing it (which I assume is, whenever it's appropriate for the situation / topic / emotional state at the moment; I trust my instincts).
You're not her boyfriend. This is for two people with an emotional connection.

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I would reach for her ear to compliment her earring if I like it.
Passive.
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I would hold her hand and 'test' if her nail-work is pretty. I'd say my mom is a professional manicure/pedicureist and that I can tell a good job from a lousy one (this is very true, and I do appreciate good work).
Feminine, passive.
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So... I'm not really sure as to what is this 'passive kino' you're referring to. Are you trying to say, that I am simply escalating like the inexperienced kid that I am, and should really "gear shift" to a totally different level?

Yeah.


You're focused on playing patty-cake, and not getting to the point.

have you ever seen the cover of romance novels? It's the women who do the pawing on a rock of a man. There's a reason those covers are that way.

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Put her hand on my lap and if she keeps it there
Why? So awkward.
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Although I understand it's probably going to get me blown out one day, I would like to avoid being over-touchy. I am just overcoming a phase of being not touchy at all and would prefer to calibrate more accurately than not :)

Stop fucking worrying about "calibrating" and "accuracy".

Lift weights every other day. Wear non-faded clothing. Invest in hobbies and a career you are passionate about. Make dates with women. On the date, let her do 70-80% of the talking. Try to sexualize. Act confident. Tease playfully. Sit with your legs wide, like you own the place, relaxed.


A half hour 45 minutes in, make a move. Whether it's a kiss or an invite back to your place. And you don't have to kiss her before you get to your place. That's old fashioned bullshit. Some girls, when they get to your place won't even kiss you, they'll just start unzipping your pants, lol.


Women love sex. They don't need to be "convinced" through layers of bullshit and 18 levels of accurate KINO. The outfield videos you see are complete bullshit by beta-gossipers.

Your job is to not talk her out of liking you. Because if you have a date, she already is excited about you.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:12 am 
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notepad, let's not keep doing what YOU want to do. You tried that already, it doesn't work.
Instead, let's try things that actually work.

The fact that you have to keep analyzing all this and look for little moments and fear being too pushy, is all going to show through in your game and she'll see you are weak.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:00 am 
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I always though those "cold read" "nail polish" girly routines were for fags. I used them because my mate used them though. First time I've actually seen these get debunked.


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